Sacked for using 'N' word

[Horrace]

I don't know how to copy link sorry but has anyone been following the story of the Lloyd's bank manager who was sacked for asking a relevant question in a so called anti racism training session by his employers but in his question he used the full 'N' word.
His question I believe was how would he be expected to deal with black employees or customers speaking to each other using that word.
The trainer was so offended by the word, she had to take 5 days off work. However, he got sacked.
He has since been awarded £500,00 but no apology from Lloyd's and no job back.
As far as we know, the ridiculous incompetent trainer is still employed.

I am close to this story but afraid to say how.
But will say that I'm losing sleep and furious more and more at this bank.

Can't imagine me getting fired for asking other black colleagues how to word our response to people who keep saying that word. During an anti racism discussion. Worlds gone mad.

It is possible to think both that this man's actions were inappropriate and deserved to be pulled up about it, and also to think that the purpose of any kind of anti-racist training includes the notion that people's behaviour is not yet perfect and that being able to ask questions and make mistakes might be how someone learns... haven't we all "corrected" language we've heard someone use that isn't acceptable any more - does this work better by pointing out a better way or by bashing a hammer over their head? Maybe because I work with young people I very much see this as a teaching moment, not a sacking one.

You weren't asking me but, anyway: I have a deep, strongly-held ideological opposition to the banning of any words. The fact that currently-offensive words aren't banned by law is immaterial. Cultural imperatives shape the law, and some words are now so fiercely censored that they are well on their way to de facto banning.

The potential repercussions are horrible, from 'thin end of the wedge' concerns to the prospect of literature being rewritten every decade to remove words deemed unsayable at the time.

It should be said that their appearance in literature is often meant to be offensive, illustrating something about the character or the setting - and often isn't, having been inoffensive at the time of writing. Either way, we very much impoverish ourselves if we refuse to recognise them.

That some words are more offensive when used by one demographic than another is - weird. It's great to understand how & why this might be so, but banning one group from even quoting the other is a form of separatism. And I think that's nasty.

Anyone who can't tell whether a word's being used with deliberate malice has no place dictating the language others may use. All the '-isms' are real, but context really does matter. Old and decrepit are useful words, for instance, but they can certainly be used maliciously. UK law recognises this already. I really don't want to see this creep into blanket bans on parts of speech.

And why would someone need 5 days off work because someone asked a basic question about a work related issue outlining terminology others are using, not using it himself?

I'm guessing it's because hearing a white man use that word triggered such distressing memories for her that she needed time off to recover.

It's awful that so many people are questioning this.

I struggle with this.

I think using the word about a person is vile and using it about a group of people is abhorrant.

But if you ban people from using the word even when they are discussing why the word should not be used, I think you may be acting against your own interests.

Surely people need to know the words they shouldn't use, and understand why? Otherwise, don't we get stuck in a cycle where those that don't remember the past are condemned to repeat it?

@MyCatWoofs

I don’t understand with it being such a dreadful word why it is so widely used in black (American only? Or elsewhere too?) culture?

Wouldn’t people want it relegated to a historical relic to move forward and not have it brought to mind all the time.

What is the purpose, is it like a term of endearment or what is the meaning between black people?

I really don’t get why it’s got the place it has. Though I know some really don’t like it so not all black people are of the same view.

I read responses like this and cringe.

omfg half a million pounds! Clearly he was vindicated.
If that’s all you have to do to get £500,000… I mean…
Wow.

Time off to recover? How did we get into he situation where someone needs a week off work to recover simply because someone said something they considered to be inappropriate. It really doesn’t help the cause.

@Charlie2121 it would be massively more helpful for me if you explained your response a bit, as I don't understand what you mean (and you chose to comment on my post).

Well, it would have been smarter for him to have used the N word, but a simple instruction to that effect would have sufficed, I think.

Laughing my head off at the trainer who had to take five days off work.

I find it unacceptably controlling to be told that you must never let a given word cross your lips, regardless of your motivations or doing so. Whatever that word may be. It's as simple as that.

This thread is about a racial slur, but I would say the same regardless of what the word was/is.

I have never uttered the N word, I doubt I ever will. But if I did, I know it wouldn't be racially motivated, despite what others may insist.

I understand that for many black people, using the word themselves is empowering and I am in no place to judge if this is working out as intended. What I can see is that the set up provides racists with a lot of power to offend and upset people without even using the word or getting close to any disciplinary action. They just need to state that they should be able to use the N word to cause a lot of distress.

Very good post.

Interested to read the comments on the missed learning opportunity and feel, perhaps, the trainer herself wasn’t up to speed. Found this Opinion piece which does offer some nuance that, perhaps, she was unable to appreciate.

https://time.com/4316322/larry-wilmore-obama-n-word/

The potential repercussions are horrible for whom? It’s very clear here that you are prioritising one group of people. The same group of people who do not have to face the impacts that come through the usage of these words.

For example, you mentioned literature. Most of the books that are being altered are children’s books, whereas adults books usually just have a warning. Is it really reasonable to suggest that children of colour should be expected to absorb and internalise these awful depictions of themselves to appease white readers?

Consistently prioritising one group over another is a type of separatism and is pretty nasty. That is what has led to all of this structural racism, which is much nastier than being asked not to use a word. So many people pretend that they want a more equal world, but will argue against even the smallest changes which show that other perspectives may start to be prioritised, just as much as white ones.

Absolute bollocks, @MCOut. Fortunately for everyone, I've got a migraine and need to stop typing.

Your post reminds me of a guy that used to work in our department. Everyone will say he was a lovely guy and from working with him would have never thought he had a racist bone in his body, especially as we all work closely in international and diverse teams.

He left the company to go contracting abroad and the next we heard of him a few years later he was in jail charged with racially motivated manslaughter, has since been found guilty. Still can't believe it of him. But that doesn't mean it was a miscarriage of justice because his colleagues thought he was a good guy.

No one really knows what their colleagues are like, what I cant understand is how anyone gets to middle aged and is so unaware that that word in a work context on a training session with 100 people (I think I read that in the article), or any context is not going to go down well.

But none of us are him so who knows what his true intentions were.

Please tell me how the removal of the N word from text is negative in anyway for a black person? I’m so interested to hear.

I mean it’s just a word. No one dies when it’s used. I won’t use it because it’s a particularly vile one with vile and damaging connotations, but some perspective required i think…

also it’s telling that everyone is ignoring the post above which details some of the training feedback. It’s clear from that post that the guy meant no harm and was rounded upon by the trainer. It’s all very well if you’re an intelligent person who understands the gravity of using language like that. But not everyone is the same. Not everyone does get it.

Well a White middle class Conservative male really has no need to be using the 'N' word at all....He possibly was trying to be inflammatory .
I use a branch {Barclays} where there are people all races and backgrounds both working there and as customers, and never, ever have I heard the 'N' word used.

Excellent post.

I mean it’s just a word. No one dies when it’s used

FFS that is not the point!

Especially as an anti racism trainer. I mean come on!

This whole thing is like an episode of South Park.

''I mean it’s just a word. No one dies when it’s used."

Words are powerful things.
Once unleashed, they can't be reeled back in.

The bloke who used the word was likely trying to be 'funny'.

There was a Big Brother contestant {White} who was dismissed for calling someone a 'N' in conversation.