Neighbour has stolen garden (with pic)!

[AnxiousAn]

Please see the image as it helps to explain this situation!

We moved into our house 6 months ago, so we are fairly new to the area. This is important as we are trying to be careful as to how we approach this.

Essentially, all of the terraced houses in our street used to back on to disused land. Over the years, all of the neighbours have claimed their ‘extra’ bit of garden by incorporating the disused land directly behind their garden. Behind the ‘extra gardens’ is a footpath.

Prior to us living here, there was an elderly owner, who as we understand from the other neighbours, didn’t claim his ‘extra’ bit as he has mobility issues. This means that Neighbour 1 has not only claimed their ‘extra’ bit, but also the bit behind our garden. Whilst we aren’t that bothered about having a bigger garden, it does mean we:

• Have no access to the back of our house via the footpath.
• Have Neighbour 1 regularly walking around that bit, directly at the back of our garden (fences are low).
• It’s quite an eyesore as Neighbour 1 uses it for storage / rubbish bins / extra wood / compost. The fence they built some years ago when they claimed it is dilapidated and looks terrible. They also have a dilapidated, rotten shed on it, which they have said they don’t use but have no reason to get rid of.

Additionally, we are the only house down our road that doesn’t have the ‘extra’ bit, and the only people whose garden is now overlooked and boxed in. Neighbour 1 has admitted he doesn’t own the land and has never bothered purchasing it.

What would you do?

To reference the photo - the black lines are the original gardens and the green is the extra bits that have been claimed. N1 stands for Neighbour 1, Ours is our garden, N2 is the neighbour on our other side… (I’ve included our neighbour on the other side so you can see what everyone else has ‘claimed’.. apart from Neighbour 1). The grey is the foot path.

@Whinge The deeds show that we don’t own it, and the neighbour has admitted they don’t own it either. All of the land was just disused and the neighbours have gradually, over the years, taken the bits at the back of their gardens. Neighbour 1 has taken the bit directly at the back of theirs and ours.

Sorry I thought that was clear? Nobody owns it…

The OP has made it clear she doesn’t think she owns it. The thread is clearly about the usage of the land based on people ‘taking possession’ of land they don’t own and how that impacts her own access and usage of it.

Agree with above start with looking at your deeds, then look at the land registry, then talk to your neighbour

Ah apologies you were asking about access, I really should read a bit slower before replying. Although my answer is still relatively similar I suspect the Op isn't entitled to use it for access to her garden. It should be really easy to answerthis as all OP needs to do is look at the deeds.

Somebody owns it - you just need to find out who

The deeds don’t state anything about an entitlement to the footpath. Several of the neighbours have put up doors in their fences though so they can access the footpath directly from their garden.

Sorry I thought that was clear? Nobody owns it…

You and the neighbour don't own it, but someone owns it.

Talking to a solicitor (or surveyor) in itself will not cause neighbourly issues. Finding out where you stand legally is just another piece of information that may guide how you choose to proceed. It may, in fact result in you choosing to do nothing, and actually preserving relations. It’s just making sure you have all the information needed.

It’s a very good point raised that he may not want to risk the land directly at the back of his house. Funnily enough the land that is directly behind his, he has planted lovely trees, hedges, bushes… it’s the bit behind ours he is seemingly using as waste disposal.

We had an almost identical set up in one of my childhood homes. Though in our case my parents bought a bit of unused and trapped land, wider than our own garden. Others then started extending, whether they paid or not I don't know. I've just looked on Google maps and can see it's still the same, 40 years later.

I think I know where this is, N by any chance?

Your neighbour may apply for adverse possession if they have maintained the land for 10yrs and want to keep it.

You would need to persuade them not to do this or buy it off them if you want it.

Agree with others that you should have resolved the issue prior to purchase as it not only impacts you now but may deter a potential buyer if you decide to move on.

In the event you do get the land, make sure you establish ownership yourself.

@RachelSTG If you mean the area starts with N, then yes.

Id agree with PP saying to approach with an air of inevitability but extreme politeness first when speaking with the neighbour. I would expect he wouldn't want to risk losing the use of the land, should you go the more formal route of finding the owner.

The land may not be registered but it will be owned by someone - probably the local authority. They generally aren't great at protecting land with little use (to them) from adverse possession. But in my experience, may assert ownership if it's brought to their attention (followed by selling it or licensing garden use). Do you want to open that can of worms for all your neighbours?
Realistically here you missed the boat, the encroachment happened before you moved there and have no claim on this land at all.
Maybe your neighbour will relinquish it to you - maybe not. They might be waiting for the time to pass so they can have it registered to them. This is often 12 years subject to certain rules.
They could quite legitimately then sell it to you.
I'm not sure what you think you're entitled to here.

I’d speak with the neighbour and explain innocently that you’re considering asking the Council about this land and how you could legally claim it, but that you’re worried the Council will contact the land owner who may well take back all the land that’s been claimed. This might prompt the neighbour to say not to bother doing that, that you can have that bit of land (even though it’s not his to hand over).

To those saying "somebody must own it" my reply is not necessarily! We had land at the rear of a previous house that was owned by nobody, nobody maintained it and I went to land registry etc - the land was once owned by an early 20th century building company but as that was dissolved and the directors discharged all asset 95 years ago land registry said nobody had a claim so to erect a fence and then request a resurvey of our plot. Thankfully buyer was a cash buyer from abroad and didn't seem to question this and it's no longer my problem!

@Soontobe60 Thats a good idea, thanks.

Can you just put up a higher fence so you don't see it? I think you might start some real shit with all the neighbours if you start a fuss. His shit was there first. It's like going to a public beach and demanding someone move because they are blocking your view. It doesn't belong to you.

Probably worth going to land registry to see if they think someone owns it and then work out how to proceed.

Are you saying that the original set up before everyone started stealing extra land was: End of a garden ( so presumably a fence with a gate in it? Or just a low fence or similar?) Then a patch of land that leads seamlessly onto a footpath running behind the gardens?

So everyone has essentially extended their boundaries to the very limit of the patch of land leaving just a rat run footpath between houses?

Are there houses on the other side of the footpath? What have they done with their gardens?

It seems an odd set up to me - I've only ever known footpaths or ginnels or snickets to be narrow passageways dissecting the backs of houses.

Sorry OP, just trying to envisage the setup. Either way, just tell your neighbour you'll be wanting access at the back now. If he gets shitty you'll have to go the legal route.

OP, do you live in the North East? If so, I’m pretty certain I’m good friends with somebody on your street. 😂

@Alchemistress Yes you are correct. The other side of the foot path is just woodland.

Your neighbour may think he does not own the land, but if he's been using it for 10+ years he could well claim it as his own under adverse possession (it's ten years for registered land, 12 years for unregistered land and you need to be able to evidence that you've been using the land). It sounds like you don't have a claim over this land, and if you get a solicitor involved you risk your neighbour getting his own lawyer involved who could advise him to formalise his ownership of the land. I think your best bet is to have a neighbourly discussion about sharing that land, whether that's agreeing access to the pathway across it or taking it over completely. If he's looking for payment that's when you'd get lawyers involved, to make sure that he's not selling you something he doesn't have a claim over. Or if he's only been using the land for a couple of years you could contact the council in the hope that they'd reclaim the land, but that's unlikely unless they have a particular use for it in which case it could end up upsetting all your neighbours!

Re adverse possession, I know of a street of new build houses where all of the houses extended their gardens by 5 metres taking over disused land owned by the council with no access. Ten years later they were able to evidence that they'd been using the land for that period of time, and all successfully applied to for adverse possession. It was so well coordinated that there was obviously someone involved who knew the law and understood how to take advantage of it, whereas it sounds like it's all been a bit more ad hoc in your new street.

@PossumintheHouse Potential ally? 😂