Neighbour has stolen garden (with pic)!

[AnxiousAn]

Please see the image as it helps to explain this situation!

We moved into our house 6 months ago, so we are fairly new to the area. This is important as we are trying to be careful as to how we approach this.

Essentially, all of the terraced houses in our street used to back on to disused land. Over the years, all of the neighbours have claimed their ‘extra’ bit of garden by incorporating the disused land directly behind their garden. Behind the ‘extra gardens’ is a footpath.

Prior to us living here, there was an elderly owner, who as we understand from the other neighbours, didn’t claim his ‘extra’ bit as he has mobility issues. This means that Neighbour 1 has not only claimed their ‘extra’ bit, but also the bit behind our garden. Whilst we aren’t that bothered about having a bigger garden, it does mean we:

• Have no access to the back of our house via the footpath.
• Have Neighbour 1 regularly walking around that bit, directly at the back of our garden (fences are low).
• It’s quite an eyesore as Neighbour 1 uses it for storage / rubbish bins / extra wood / compost. The fence they built some years ago when they claimed it is dilapidated and looks terrible. They also have a dilapidated, rotten shed on it, which they have said they don’t use but have no reason to get rid of.

Additionally, we are the only house down our road that doesn’t have the ‘extra’ bit, and the only people whose garden is now overlooked and boxed in. Neighbour 1 has admitted he doesn’t own the land and has never bothered purchasing it.

What would you do?

To reference the photo - the black lines are the original gardens and the green is the extra bits that have been claimed. N1 stands for Neighbour 1, Ours is our garden, N2 is the neighbour on our other side… (I’ve included our neighbour on the other side so you can see what everyone else has ‘claimed’.. apart from Neighbour 1). The grey is the foot path.

She doesn’t have a right of way in her deeds though @Runnerduck34 .

As neither of you own it, if I wanted access to the footpath I'd just use that part to access the footpath. Otherwise I'd do nothing but put up better fences around my section.

If it's on her deeds and no one else has been granted the land by a court, she has EVERY right to it.

But it’s not on her deeds. That is literally the whole point of her post.

@DeeLusional see this post re the deeds.

It’s a good idea to click “see all” on OP’s posts before commenting, though I think even the OP itself made it fairly clear that OP knew she had not purchased the land in question.

it's on her deeds and no one else has been granted the land by a court, she has EVERY right to it

EVERYone knows that.

Obviously if it's on her deeds she has a right to it.

However...it isn't.

The no access would bother me the most. Has he fenced this land in or can you just walk across it? I would have smelly old junk and bins at the bottom of my garden too!

Just put a gate in your fence and start using it to access the path. If he's not had it long enough to claim adverse possession then this will stop the clock since he needs to demonstrate sole use.

I doubt he'll be bothered enough to make a fuss as he's not really using it and has no legal claim. if he has had use of it long enough then he can make an adverse possession claim and you're no worse off - of course if he fails to do it then it doesn't matter how long he's been using it since he'll no longer have sole use.

Once you've demonstrated access then you can start clearing the rubbish and use it as a garden. Eventually ask him if he wants the shed back or whether he'd like you to dispose of it for him. Finally put up a fence.

No different to what he did himself. No need for drama.

But it’s not on her deeds, she doesn’t even have right of way over it, she’s no more right to it than the neighbour. Likely less rights depending on how long he’s been using it.

Go back to the solicitor you used to buy the house and ask them to clarify the situation. There may be something on the deeds about access.

Asked and answered @Zooeyzo .

There is a lot of good sense on here, but also some inaccuracies - adverse possession is not simple - yes there is a basis now (since the law changed in 2002) of 10 years possession of registered land - but there are lots of different situations where it is not that easy - for example, crown foreshore is 60 years, crown lands or various ecclesiastical lands 30 years etc. Similarly, if the land has at any point in the last 10 years been in trust, then you can't apply for adverse possession - and that can happen if the owner has died (probate being a form of trust), or a business goes bust etc. There are different situations for land owned by foreign corporations - and even if owned by the 'enemy'

No land is 'not owned' though it might not be registered, it will still be owned - and to gain adverse possession you need to 'possess' the land, not just use it - so it might be that simply using it as a garden is not enough - e.g. fencing in open land is indicative of possessing the land (though not necessarily sufficient on its own...)

it is a veritable minefield - so I would be taking legal advice and not rushing in...

Agree, get legal advice before talking to neighbour

True, but we need to remember, that it’s not her land he is using, it belongs elsewhere, so yes he may or may not be able to claim adverse possession, but she absolutely can’t and it is no more hers than mine.

i understand she titled it he had stolen her garden, but it’s not her garden, she’s no right to the land, any more than he does.

Absolutely right - but if she wants to do what she is suggesting then she should be checking the legal position first - and ultimately, the land will belong to someone - the whole concept of adverse possession is just a bit cheeky - the belief that somehow there is entitlement to something you don't own and haven't paid for...

Not everyone can access their land from the rear, it's not a standard right.

Why on earth are people suggesting a solicitor!!! this is the absolute one thing she cannot do!

The neighbours do not own the land

They have stolen it

Neither op, nor the neighbours are entitled to that land

A solicitor can’t do anything about the neighbour blocking her in at the back since it’s not on her deeds and we presume she had no right of access

OP can look into original owner but I imagine all that will do is alert them to the fact the row of neighbours have taken land

Why do this first OP? Think will guarantee you and all the rest losing that extra space

You are all making massive big deal about this.

OP tell neighbour you want the bit at the back and i guarantee they’ll give it you

The consequence of them not, are you telling the owner and them risking the entire row being taken back from them! Why would they do this?! They have no leg to stand on so have no choice but to give it to you.

you cannot go through solicitor for something you don’t own or isn’t on your deeds. You have mo right to it. Offering to buy it etc as first step is ridiculous

My dad owns a house with this exact problem. He purchased the house long after N1 moved in so they’ve always had the extra bit of garden. It’s about an extra 20ft of garden so not a small bit by any means! They’ve installed a pool in there but were unsure if the land actually belongs to them or not. Everyone else’s gardens go back to the same length which includes this extra 20ft except my dad’s. We’re unsure if they took it when the house was vacant-auction property very dilapidated when bought!-but my dad has completely refurbished it so the extra 20ft would be nice! My advice would be as no one claims that bit of land would be to ask for the right of access and you’d actually like that little bit just like everyone else.

presume

Rather than 'presume', I would want to clarify if there is/was a right of way or similar.

Neither op, nor the neighbours are entitled to that land

The neighbour might be. A relative of mine lost some land that was actually on his deeds through adverse possession.

Awkward. Horrible that he’s using it as a rubbish dump! :(

OP your deeds show you don't own it but that doesn't mean someone else doesn't.

There has been been compulsory registration in England and Wales for over 30 years. You can do a search of the Index Map at the Land Registry and it should reveal the owner. You don't need a solicitor for this. You can print the form off online.

Even if there isn't a ROW ( a private ROW is actually called an easement) you can accrue one in several ways - by way of prescription, necessity etc.. all is not lost by any means if the deeds don't show one.

You can use this map search to see if the land is registered and what the parcel number is to request the deeds.

https://www.landregistry-uk.com/map-search

But lots of land isn't registered, which doesn't mean no one owns it, just they've not registered it. Our house was registered for the first time when we bought it in 2020 and several of my neighbours are unregistered according to the map. They've lived here since the houses were built in the 70s.

What you do know for sure, is it isn't yours. Which is the important bit!

OP if you do want to check with a solicitor on who actually owns it (I would want to know) ask for clarity from the conveyancer who you used to buy the house.
When I've had issues like this the sol normally doesn't charge anything.