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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Pub chef refusing to cook for allergies

527 replies

Allergyissue87 · 07/01/2024 13:22

Very odd experience yesterday, my son has a nut allergy and we eat out once or twice a month. Generally we get shown an allergy folder or directed to an app to check and given a quick warning about cross contamination and all fine. I know the level of his allergy and am happy to take a small risk of cross contamination etc, otherwise he could never have a meal out.
Yesterday we went to a chain pub, have been before with no issues, asked if we had any allergies, told the woman at the till yes a nut allergy, we've checked the allergen info and happy with risk of cross of contamination etc. All fine, ordered, paid and sat down with our drinks.
Then about 20 minutes later a chef came to the table to tell us he can't cook for us as there is an allergy and our order shouldnt have been taken. I was really confused, wondered if it was a new chef etc, I explained I'd checked the allergy info on their website, it doesn't contain any allergens and I'm aware of the small possibility of cross contamination but not an issue for his level of allergy, and he's eaten it before and all fine. But no, he was adamant he cannot serve food due to this allergy, he was apparently the kitchen manager and would not risk making a child ill, couldn't explain further than that and went back to the kitchen.
I went back up to the bar and asked for the manager, a young assistant manager gave me a full refund and apologised but still couldn't give me a real explanation.

I'll most likely complain through their online form as we wasted about an hour by the time we had got our refund and left, with 2 hungry children, and my son who now doesn't want to eat anything not homemade as 'the man said I'll get ill'.
Am I being unreasonable to expect to be served?

To clarify if my son ate a nut, or something containing nuts he would be unwell and need an epipen, but has been fine with previous incidents of his food touching nut-containing food etc and there wasn't actually anything containing nuts on the pub menu.

OP posts:
Londonrach1 · 07/01/2024 19:50

Chef worried so totally understand.. sorry op but understand why they said no.

ColleenDonaghy · 07/01/2024 19:55

he was actually very rude, patronising, wouldn't let me get a word out, actually said 'I'm not feeding him I might kill him' in front of my son and the manager did apologise for the way he dealt with us.

That's horrific, and certainly warrants a complaint. Our 5yo knows her allergy is serious and that she'd need her epipen, an ambulance and the hospital if she ate peanuts. She's very cautious and sensible about choosing foods but she's in no way mature enough to understand that allergic reactions can be fatal. It is our job as parents to help her learn that as she grows up, not a random chef in a pub.

Marynotsocontrary · 07/01/2024 21:26

I'm sorry he was so rude and patronising and said what he did in front of your young son. That's certainly worthy of complaint.

I haven't said anywhere that my son is at risk of death or being hospitalised if the meal goes wrong, if that was the case I wouldn't take the risk, he has a mild allergy, only mentioned because they ask.

OP, he's been prescribed an epipen for a reason.
He's at risk of having a serious anaphylatic reaction.
Just because he's had mild reactions so far doesn't mean that the next reaction will be mild too. Allergic reactions to peanut are often very severe. The dose consumed is important but so are a lot of other factors. You need to be aware of this.
That doesn't mean you can't eat out but you do need to be very careful.

LaurieStrode · 07/01/2024 21:27

Livelovebehappy · 07/01/2024 16:28

But why did you even mention it if you had already taken the decision that you were happy with the risk? It’s like you made a decision, but also wanted to mention it so that if your decision was wrong, and your son was badly affected, that you could hold the restaurant responsible?

This is how it seems to me, too.

If one were happy with the restaurant's fare and protocol, why bring it up?

Marynotsocontrary · 07/01/2024 21:31

@LaurieStrode
You always tell the restaurant staff about your allergies. Always.
It's a really basic rule.
The idea is they take extra care with your dish then. A pp explained how upthread.

WiseUpJanetWeiss · 07/01/2024 21:47

Marynotsocontrary · 07/01/2024 21:26

I'm sorry he was so rude and patronising and said what he did in front of your young son. That's certainly worthy of complaint.

I haven't said anywhere that my son is at risk of death or being hospitalised if the meal goes wrong, if that was the case I wouldn't take the risk, he has a mild allergy, only mentioned because they ask.

OP, he's been prescribed an epipen for a reason.
He's at risk of having a serious anaphylatic reaction.
Just because he's had mild reactions so far doesn't mean that the next reaction will be mild too. Allergic reactions to peanut are often very severe. The dose consumed is important but so are a lot of other factors. You need to be aware of this.
That doesn't mean you can't eat out but you do need to be very careful.

I don’t think the OP has said her son has a peanut allergy. She’s repeatedly said a nut allergy.

Caerulea · 07/01/2024 22:20

Grimchmas · 07/01/2024 18:47

Oh behave.

There's a world of difference- of course you should let whoever is preparing your food know that there is an allergy - even (especially) in a very well run kitchen with great food hygiene practices they will take extra care to avoid cross-contamination if they know about an allergy: for example it is usual practice with an allergy to clean down the particular work area before plating up that specific plate of food, washing your hands before handling that specific plate, only using clean utensils fresh from the dishwasher to serve the roasties instead of the tongs that have been being used for the last 20 plates, and probably only have potato and fat on them, just in case on one of the previous plates they had touched the stuffing as you did so; changing gloves or washed hands immediately before handling anything for that plate, making sure you don't wipe that single drip of gravy with the teatowel you've used for previous plates and so on. You would still be accepting the risk of airborne cross-contamination and of contamination before the food reached the kitchen, but still mitigating the risk as much as you can.

Edited

People genuinely don't realise the extent we go to & STILL there is a risk. Occasionally I make seitan, on those days I don't do coeliacs cos gluten flour is like icing sugar or cocoa - it floats everywhere & it's a small kitchen.

The idea of checking my menu, deciding on something that doesn't appear to contain gluten directly & then ordering without telling me makes me ill.

I've got an allergy which doesn't require labelling as an allergen & got caught myself cos it wasn't on the menu anywhere & so I didn't say. Dinner turned up & it was in the chutney (such a bizarre thing to put in chutney too!), but I didn't tell them so it was my fault.

Marynotsocontrary · 08/01/2024 01:01

WiseUpJanetWeiss · 07/01/2024 21:47

I don’t think the OP has said her son has a peanut allergy. She’s repeatedly said a nut allergy.

Yes you're right, that probably means tree nuts rather than peanuts - though I'm not certain and it could very easily mean both.

My point is the same anyway. You don't get an epipen prescribed unless there's an acknowledged risk of anaphylaxis, and that's potentially life-threatening.

I'm worried OP doesn't realise this as she's said there's no risk of a severe reaction or hospitalisation. But the very fact her DS has been prescribed an epipen says the opposite.

LuvSmallDogs · 08/01/2024 01:23

Well people with allergies want to kick up such a fuss that other kids can't have peanut butter sandwiches or cereal bars with nuts at school and so on.

But if they're inconvenienced by someone taking their allergies seriously, suddenly it's another matter?

LaurieStrode · 08/01/2024 01:56

LuvSmallDogs · 08/01/2024 01:23

Well people with allergies want to kick up such a fuss that other kids can't have peanut butter sandwiches or cereal bars with nuts at school and so on.

But if they're inconvenienced by someone taking their allergies seriously, suddenly it's another matter?

Exactly!

It always seems very "heads I win, tails you lose." They are never satisfied.

WhereIsBebèsChambre · 08/01/2024 02:34

I'm confused about all the posts saying its discrimination if restaurants etc say they can't cater 100% safely for allergies. Does that mean you say they should be shut down? Have worked as a student n several tiny establishments that only had tiny galley kitchens, there wouldn't be room re cross contaminated re the nut allergies, and risk of airborne transfer, should they be made to close?

Runninghappy · 08/01/2024 03:00

ColleenDonaghy · 07/01/2024 14:26

Nut allergies are really scary.

There's nothing special about nut allergies. People with serious milk, egg, sesame etc allergies struggle to get them taken seriously because of this common misunderstanding.

Absolutely! My daughter has a life threatening milk allergy and has needed her epipen 3 times in her life ( she’s 15). Nut allergies are no more scary than other serious allergies. Actually, it’s much easier to avoid nuts than common allergens like milk.

juicyfruitmtume · 08/01/2024 03:01

Although it's not ideal and they should have told you immediately, part of me admires the fact the chef has said this.

He probably feels he can't guarantee there is no risk of cross contamination. Therefore he's being really careful and doesn't want to make your son ill.

Too many places don't take nut allergies seriously!

Runninghappy · 08/01/2024 03:03

B0G0F · 07/01/2024 14:36

@ColleenDonaghy ,
There's nothing special about nut allergies.
Of course not. Nothing special about going into an anaphylactic shock because a trifle had almonds in it at all.
Probably just attention seeking.

Edited

The point is you can go into anaphylaxis from other food, not just nuts. My daughter has gone into anaphalysis from cross contamination from milk and can’t even go into a cafe due to milk in the air. I want the poster who said this, but assume that is what they meant.

Whatthefnow · 08/01/2024 03:09

I can understand why the chef refused.

I can't understand why you would risk your child getting I'll.

Runninghappy · 08/01/2024 03:18

fleurneige · 07/01/2024 16:45

being 18 will actually become much more dangerous- due to going to Uni, going out and peer pressure, sharing kitchen, etc.

Most people have absolutely NO idea what the realities of living with a severe anyphylactic allergy is like- for the person and the family.

My daughter is 15 with a life threatening milk allergy and this is actually the reason I’m awake in the middle of the night. I am more terrified of her allergy now than ever before. I honestly don’t see how she can live away from home at university as the kitchen won’t be suitable for her if she’s in shared accommodation. I don’t know how she’ll manage if she were to drink and not be sure what she’s doing. I had a panic attack last week when my mind was racing about it. She’s had to have counselling herself to deal with it. It’s terrifying.

We never eat out for pleasure, but if you go on holiday, you sometimes have to. We take as much food as we can, but we can’t take everything. She usually lives on plain pasta or chips for the duration.

sashh · 08/01/2024 03:20

Allergyissue87 · 07/01/2024 13:43

I absolutely wouldn't want to put any risk on someone doing their job, of course not. There's no need to despair for society because my 10 year old wanted a kids pizza & chips that he's eaten multiple times before without issue.
My issue was that the chef couldn't explain to me what the issue was, and I'm now more confused than ever about what is safe and what isn't.
If he had told me where the risk was, I would happily accept it and try and find somewhere that didn't have that risk. But it seemed more like it was just because he said so. When I spoke to the manager she couldn't explain why I could order it 3 weeks ago but it wasn't safe today.
Having looked through all their allergen info there actually isn't anything they serve that contains nuts so it does seem more a case of he can't guarantee his pizza didn't contact nuts in the factory. But surely that is the case if I buy a pizza from asda?

I can think of a few reasons.

Maybe that chef has made food and a child became really unwell or worse, if you were them you would not put yourself in that situation again.

Maybe they had been eating nuts / working with nuts earlier in the day so may have traces of nut on his clothes.

Runninghappy · 08/01/2024 03:26

trainboundfornowhere · 07/01/2024 19:45

There was also a woman I read about I think last year who was allergic to dairy. Out in town as a family they stopped at a Pret to get sandwiches. The woman in question picked a vegan pre packaged sandwich. The sandwich sadly contained traces of dairy despite being labelled as vegan. Again the woman died despite the efforts of her family and medical staff.

There will be a good reason they refused to serve you OP but to leave you waiting an hour before saying anything is shocking . As someone with food intolerances rather than allergies I never admit to it and judge the menu for myself but if someone has allergies they can be life threatening and sadly fewer and fewer places now seem willing to cater.

For anyone reading this with a dairy allergy - the amount of vegan foods allowed to be called ‘vegan’ is higher than if it’s ’free From’ so being ‘vegan’ doesn’t mean it’s suitable for someone with a milk or egg allergy.

WandaWonder · 08/01/2024 03:36

Allergyissue87 · 07/01/2024 13:33

See I do understand not wanting to be responsible for a child becoming unwell even if I had accepted any responsibility.

It just seems odd to me, at the till there is a big sign warning about allergies and not being able to guarantee being allergen free due to suppliers etc, like a disclaimer. And they ask about any allergies before taking an order, why would they ask if its a point blank nope can't serve you.

I'm now more worried about taking him anywhere that has served him in the past in case it actually isn't safe? This chef seemed to be saying basically who knows what happens to the food before it comes in his kitchen!

But if harm comes to a child/other person I don't think it works where another takes responsibility 'I say it is OK so it must be'

A baby/child is still a human in their own right, a mother may have given birth to a baby but once they are born they exist themselves

No way would I risk harming a child just because a parent says it's fine

WandaWonder · 08/01/2024 03:37

It's seems another case of 'I demand this to happen and if it doesn't you are wrong'

Runninghappy · 08/01/2024 03:50

In response to the OP, we had this a few years ago. We had had no electricity for a few days due to a storm and after 3 days of sandwiches, we went to The Ivy, which is a chain my daughter had eaten at several times before. Their fish and chips was dairy free. However after sitting there for ages, they told us they could no longer guarantee it is dairy free as they had used the fryer for something else so there was a risk of cross contamination. I wasn’t annoyed at the chef, I was annoyed that they had changed their policy so it was no longer a safe place to eat.

However, j am also aware there is always a level of risk involved. Sometimes eating out is unavoidable.

At home, I have a process. I always do hers first so there’s no danger I could get distracted and use the wrong knife etc. I always dish hers up on the plate on the right so I know which is hers. Generally, I don’t use butter, cheese or milk in my cooking, but I still feel it’s safer to have this process. If I were to use butter in my mash, for example, I would dish hers up first, give it to her, then do the others so I know I haven’t made any mistakes.

When she has had issues, it’s has almost always been out. Once, she had one lick of ‘milk free lemon sorbet’ (she always licks the spoon first) and she said it hurt her tongue. I said it was probably because the lemon was sharp but she didn’t have any more. Within 15 mins she had had her epipen and the ambulance was rushing her to hospital. That was her first time and it was horrific. I asked the hotel after for the ingredients of the ‘milk free sorbet’ as I was genuinely worried she had developed an allergy to something else and the first ingredient was ‘lactose free milk’. That is not milk free.

The second time was with a prepackaged cake from Tesco. She had had this cake several times before, Hundreds probably. I took one with me to meet her after school before a club. She took a bite and said it was the most delicious cake she’d ever tasted. I said it’s the same as always and she said it wasn’t. I said don’t eat any more. She stuck her tongue out and it was covered in spots. I rushed her home and read the ingredients. My heart sank as they had changed them - no warning on the packaging. She spent 2 nights in hospital after one mouthful.

The most recent time was in Paris. I have a French degree and masters so can speak thr language and absolutely wasn’t a language issue. I imagine it was cross contamination. That was the worst yet. All she had was 2 chips. She ended up with 2 ambulances as the first couldn’t stabilise her enough to get her to hospital so called for a second with doctors. I won’t go into details about what happened to her, but it’s the worst experience of my life.

This is why it’s dangerous when people just refer to nut allergies as severe. People then think ‘oh it’s only a milk intolerance’ when actually it can also be life threatening.

We never eat out socially. When we go away I take bread, rice milk, cakes, crisps, dairy free chocolate etc but I can’t take enough for a week holiday. She usually has a boiled egg and fruit for breakfast as that can’t go wrong. Then we will make an assessment if she eats anything at lunch or dinner or just has the food I took. She would only ever have plain chips or pasta and some fruit.

After the experience in Paris, my GP suggested I had ptsd, which could be the case as it still keeps me awake 3 years later.

MissTrip82 · 08/01/2024 04:53

I don’t know why it took so long to sort out because it should be clear from the start.

But a child who needs adrenaline after
exposure isn’t a child who ‘becomes unwell’ . That’s a life-threatening allergy.

ColleenDonaghy · 08/01/2024 06:17

@Runninghappy poor you, and your poor daughter. I'm so sorry her allergy is so severe Flowers

ColleenDonaghy · 08/01/2024 06:21

People with allergies don't all think the same funnily enough. The current guidance is actually against nut free schools - there's no evidence it reduces the risk of a serious reaction and can cause complacency. Although obviously that doesn't mean parents should decide to violate any nut free policies in their children's school as there likely won't be any processes in place to keep allergic children safe as there would be in schools that allow nuts.

ColleenDonaghy · 08/01/2024 06:23

Marynotsocontrary · 08/01/2024 01:01

Yes you're right, that probably means tree nuts rather than peanuts - though I'm not certain and it could very easily mean both.

My point is the same anyway. You don't get an epipen prescribed unless there's an acknowledged risk of anaphylaxis, and that's potentially life-threatening.

I'm worried OP doesn't realise this as she's said there's no risk of a severe reaction or hospitalisation. But the very fact her DS has been prescribed an epipen says the opposite.

Peanuts aren't nuts so it's very unlikely OP means peanuts. Not that it's particularly relevant but not understanding that doesn't demonstrate a great understanding of allergies (like the cafe who wouldn't serve my peanut allergic daughter Nutella).