Pub chef refusing to cook for allergies

[Allergyissue87]

Very odd experience yesterday, my son has a nut allergy and we eat out once or twice a month. Generally we get shown an allergy folder or directed to an app to check and given a quick warning about cross contamination and all fine. I know the level of his allergy and am happy to take a small risk of cross contamination etc, otherwise he could never have a meal out.
Yesterday we went to a chain pub, have been before with no issues, asked if we had any allergies, told the woman at the till yes a nut allergy, we've checked the allergen info and happy with risk of cross of contamination etc. All fine, ordered, paid and sat down with our drinks.
Then about 20 minutes later a chef came to the table to tell us he can't cook for us as there is an allergy and our order shouldnt have been taken. I was really confused, wondered if it was a new chef etc, I explained I'd checked the allergy info on their website, it doesn't contain any allergens and I'm aware of the small possibility of cross contamination but not an issue for his level of allergy, and he's eaten it before and all fine. But no, he was adamant he cannot serve food due to this allergy, he was apparently the kitchen manager and would not risk making a child ill, couldn't explain further than that and went back to the kitchen.
I went back up to the bar and asked for the manager, a young assistant manager gave me a full refund and apologised but still couldn't give me a real explanation.

I'll most likely complain through their online form as we wasted about an hour by the time we had got our refund and left, with 2 hungry children, and my son who now doesn't want to eat anything not homemade as 'the man said I'll get ill'.
Am I being unreasonable to expect to be served?

To clarify if my son ate a nut, or something containing nuts he would be unwell and need an epipen, but has been fine with previous incidents of his food touching nut-containing food etc and there wasn't actually anything containing nuts on the pub menu.

They might fry the chips in a fryer that's also been used for something nutty out of laziness when they're not supposed too, but he didn't want to tell you

The chef is correct. If your child has a nut allergy criss contamination can kill. Hes right to mitigate that risk

They should have informed you that today's chef wasn't able to accommodate allergies if this was the case when you ordered instead of after you'd waited around.

So the chef should risk his livelihood because of your kid? No chance.

Very tough on the people who genuinely have coeliac disease then.

Probably doesn't eat out herself so doesn't understand the social side of it.

Why would they ask if its a point blank nope can't serve you.

Maybe because the chef realised it was for a child, who can't possibly be expected to be in full understanding of the facts before making a conscious decision to eat out/eat a certain dish, and levels of allergy can change over time too.

I would happily serve an adult who had made a conscious decision and could undertaken their own risk assessment, I wouldn't be happy serving a child who doesn't have that capability.

The chef was right IMO.

A lot of commercial kitchens no longer wish to take the risk of allergies.

In my case the allergy isn't too severe, it would only be a real issue if he ate actual nuts, or a large amount of something containing it,

OP, reactions to peanuts can vary. So the same person can have a worse reaction to the same amount of allergen on one day than they do on another. The severity of the reaction doesn't only depend on the amount consumed.

Your DS has a peanut allergy and carries an epipen. That is always a serious situation and potentially severe.

I think that it is unusual and badly handled, particularly if you had eaten there before..it sounds like a lack of confidence on his part.
As a caterer/chef you need to prove due diligence with regards to food preparation and storage. Providing that they had systems in place, which they would have to, in order to operate, then they should have been confident that the food did not contain nuts. Cross contamination is harder, and for that reason, I don't take on food orders where someone has a severe nut allergy, but providing that it is mild, I have asked and recorded the allergy info and know what the ingredients contain, then I am happy to proceed. After all, I am only stating that, to the best of my knowledge and having been diligent in checking ingredients and following procedures, the item contains no nuts. If I am open and honest, then it is for the parents to then decide whether to proceed. I am confident in my procedures and also trust that parents would not put their own children in danger and proceed with an order if cross contamination were an issue. In any event, I still have good procedures to reduce the risk of any cross contamination.

I do feel for chefs, particularly in lower end places where they aren’t being paid particularly well and the kitchens and supply chains aren’t capable of providing allergen free food. Ultimately they shoulder the responsibility and face criminal prosecution/jail time is anything awful happens.

If it was a high end restaurant I would take your side, but in a pub restaurant where realistically half the things are probably pre-prepared I don’t think it’s the chefs fault.

I think it is reasonable. If your son did get ill then you could sue the company. If you are happy with cross contamination risk then better not to inform the restaurant maybe.

Agreed and I say this as the mum of a child with allergies.

Sorry as an adult with a severe nut allergy (i.e. it's debatable if I'd survive another anaphylactic shock) I totally understand your perspective of 'understanding' the risks etc - especially as my son is anaphylactic to almonds but only a little as the worst he's had to suffer is an itchy mouth, but being anaphylactic myself I was all over it. BUT you are being INCREDIBLY unreasonable to walk in and announce your son's allergy and then get stroppy with the chef because he refuses to take responsibility for your son's life!!! As you have described, you've eaten there before and he's been fine! So why did you tell them??? Talk about wanting your cake and eating it. So if this one time something was cross contaminated , you have the advantage of saying "well I told you" and suing them!. I wouldn't cook for your son! IF YOU ANNOUNCE ANAPHYLAXIA, then be prepared that people will either refuse to take responsibility for cooking for your son OR will go out of their way to provide you with a guaranteed dish of food that will not have any nuts. Ugh - it's people like you that give those without serious allergies the idea that we're just flakes. I do regularly eat out! When in a new place I will admit my allergies. Sometimes I'm presented with a very very basic salad with zero dressing and, for that matter, flavour thems the breaks! 22 years on I'm still alive and still enjoying food. So angry with you!!!!!

Telling the restaurant about the allergy doesn't remove the risk of cross contamination of ingredients and items prepared off the premises, but it does allow the kitchen to reduce the risk of contamination on the premises (which is likely higher).

She wouldn't need to sue. If he ended up in hospital nearly dead or actually died, local environmental health or the H&S executive would be all over it especially if it was a well known chain.

Do you also refuse orders for customers who are coeliac or have other severe allergies or is it just people with nut and peanut allergies?

Agree with this. It sounds clumsily handled but I can't blame the chef for not wanting to take on the liability.

It's a shame but better safe than sorry.

Honestly I think it is a bonkers policy. My daughter's friend has a nut allergy and carries an EpiPen, but at her last test she was able to tolerate a small amount of nut without too serious a reaction. Her parents are happy for her to eat things that say "may contain nuts", just not anything with nuts as an actual ingredient.

Should I say we can never ever have her over to tea again? Or that she can't eat the shop bought pizza like everyone else, that she happily eats at home?

There was a recent thread about a softplay where a child attending a party had an allergy, can't remember which kind. The softplay said they couldn't provide her any food but also she wasn't allowed to bring her own (no-one could bring food in, in case of allergies ironically). So their solution seemed to be that the person with an allergy just doesn't eat.

Not sure why you keep pressing on this.

No one is obliged to put themselves into a potentially dire situation because your child wants a restaurant meal. Maybe other chefs were less cautious. That doesn't mean this one is wrong to be more cautious.

Badgering the management and now e-mailing the chain to what aim? Are you trying to get this chef disciplined? That's scurvy.

Maybe they changed suppliers or introduced new ingredients or otherwise made changes that he, the INFORMED person, isn't comfortable serving to people with potentially life-threatening allergies.

This is exactly it. He's been to chef college and done all the training. He has decided it's not safe. That is his job.

Shrug. Life isn't fair. You can't expect a commercial establishment to take on a life-or-death risk like that.

Do you know anyone who's died from a nut allergy? I do. It's not pleasant and the aftermath for the families is never-ending "what if?" "if only" devastation.

It's like going into surgery and arguing with the surgeon because they've made the decision not to give you medication you are allergic to so they've stopped.

This chef seemed to be saying basically who knows what happens to the food before it comes in his kitchen!

Well... he's right isn't he! I don't blame the chef at all.

If you don’t know what you’re talking about, you shouldn’t comment. It’s not as simple as not putting nuts into a dish, but ensuring that none of the ingredients were made/processed in the same environment as nuts. Depending on the kitchen they cannot guarantee this.

OP, it’s beyond callous that you would take a risk like this when your son is so bad he requires an epipen. I’m actually gobsmacked by this.