What to do with my mother

[HelloDeidre]

My mother has been very difficult for many years but now she is over 80 she is very unreasonable. The issue is we bought a house together many years ago. I put up the mortgage and she the cash ..almost half and half. the house is solely in my name. The mortgage was paid off in 5 years through renting the property. For 20 years after this she let the property and kept the rent . I had nothing to do with the property . Reckoned I would get it one day when she passed on . In the 20 odd years she has gained about 3 times the original value of the property in rent, Anyway she is now of an age that she cant really mange the property and it is about 30 miles from her house and my brother does not want her driving to the property and is blaming me that she is doing so. His first reaction is to shout and roar and blame others . But the thing is I live very far away in another country. I have offered to give the property to an estate agent to mange and for her to have the profits after expenses are taken out. I have offered to give the property to the council for a 5 year let and for her to keep the money on this. I work and cannot afford to retire. I cannot do the property up as I haven't the money and she has it all in the bank. If I sell the property there is very high capital gains tax to pay and when she insists on having her share I will get very very little. Though I am not sure she wants to sell, She wont pay for cleaners in the property or handymen or anything..She is very mean and wants people to do it for nothing. The thing is my brother who cant deal with her and his wife are saying I need to go there and help her let the property but I get none of the money and have no say in any of it and I have a full time job. . She even said if the property is done up I have to pay for it . She has thousands and thousands in the bank. She could get a free bus to very near the property and get a taxi for about £8 the last bit if she wants to visit it but wont do that even as wont pay for taxi . But she doesnt need to visit the property if given to estate agents or council. So she just turn up at my brothers house saying how she is worn out from cleaning and how no one is helping her. And he in turn rings me up fighting about her driving there and cleaning and how its all my responsibility to sort. I asked her if I could manage it and I wont say what she called me when I said I could take it over. . I really dont have the time to take off work, fly there and do the letting when I have no say or money from it. I dont know what to do but if I take it off of her she will have a stroke. I am so stressed by it all. Other siblings staying clear. What would you do ???

Take legal advice on not getting rent from a property that has been rented out that you are the sole named owner of.

@blossomtoes like I said, I’m not claiming to be an expert in beneficial interests. But if you are, genuinely, I’d love to know - legally - why you’re adamant that the OP’s mother couldn’t establish that she has a beneficial interest here.

Fantastic if the OP has a quick call with a solicitor who says, “don’t believe shite you read on the Internet”. But is it really something that OP shouldn’t get proper legal advice on, as I’ve said?

@HelloDeidre she sounds like a complete dose. We all have started calling them narcissistic parents these days but they have always been around and up until this generation they were just doses.

Clearly you did this as an act of kindness but in my own experience of my own mucked up parents, it mucks up relationships across the family when you have a parent who behaves like this. Also the more you write the more obvious it is where the issues lie, with the relationship patterns set down by your mum. She will have trained the whole family from day one to focus on meeting her needs and that is playing out at the moment. Definitely as soon as financially viable, get out of this arrangement.

OP - I've just seen your updates and still wonder why you are reluctant to sell up? You keep all the money from the sale and don't give your dm a dime. You don't owe her anything, quite frankly it sounds like she's always been a nasty, selfish person and she doesn't deserve anything from you. If it was the other way around you can be sure that she wouldn't give you anything. The fact that you are living abroad is even more of an incentive, it's not like you will bump into your siblings (but even if you ever did who cares what they think) The house is yours!! I would also wonder who she has on her will?! Or does she plan on bringing all her money to the grave?!

Mystro202 i actually think she thinks she is never going to die !!!
She has loads of money and no will as she says we can fight over it when she is gone !!!

Thanks everyone for your answers. I know I seem like a snowflake in relation to my mother . Youd hardly believe I have a very responsible job and manage lots of people. !!!

The conditioning from birth enabled by selfish , difficult parents is so hard to change as many on here can testify I assume

If the people who are supposed to love you most in the world are horrible to you , then your whole world is off kilter all your life.

'

Sorry haven't rtwt but - why should your mum pay agency fees on a house which she doesn't own? If you want an agency to manage it then YOU pay for it and you stop rent going to your mum.

Take some time off work, go change the locks, get the agent appointed and tell her to fuck off with her one sided approach to the whole thing? Or do the same thing but sell it. Either way, you're legally entitled to exclude her from it and tbh morally seem pretty in the clear, apart from the oddness of letting this situation arise by having her earn more than she put in (if I've got that right).

No, you absolutely haven’t RTFT.

Get legal advice but it could well be that when you sell you could deduct your 50% of 20 years rent and so not have to hand any of it over.

Failing that I'd just get a management company in and get the rent paid to you, then send her her half. It's your house so you decide what you want and do it. If she complains tell her it's legally your house and 'no one ever did nothing for me so why should I give you everything for free?'

You could also tell her the previous rental income has more than repaid her original stake so the property is now yours alone and you will be removing her role in it, with all rent going to you and an agency managing it. I'd probably go with that last one.

So, now that I have, my question still stands.

The mother should pay the agency fees because she’s currently receiving all the rent. On a house she doesn’t even own. That wasn’t difficult, was it?

OP has never suggested that their mother pay the agency fees. Only that the agency fees are deducted from the rent.

Exactly that.

I may have disagreed with you upthread on other things - but you nailed that! 👍🏻

I'm sorry, your mother seems a nightmare.

The good news is that the house is in your name. Don't sell it while your mother is alive - it's yours, and you need it towards your pension. Sounds like selling it will lead to your mother feeling entitled to the capital, which isn't fair, as many others who are capable of doing maths have pointed out.

I'd recommend as others say you go over, get the locks changed, and sort out rental one way or another. If you get a good estate agent they can organise things like renovations, painting, buying up to date furniture to get market rate rent. Yes, there will be a bit of a premium on this, but in my experience not huge and certainly worth it for someone else taking care of the hassle.

I would keep the rent and put it towards your own living expenses or salt it away in a pension.

There will be no way you can win with your mother on this, so I wouldn't bother trying. If you like, you can give her half the rental after management fees and once all updates have been paid for. But I wouldn't bother.

You can point out how she has reaped more than her fair share and clearly the arrangement is no longer working.

Good luck whatever you decide to do!

It sounds like the house probably needs some maintenance done to ensure that it's actually in a fit state to rent out. Any decent lettings agent will insist that it's in good repair and is legally compliant ( eg has all the necessary fire alarm systems, proof of annual gas safety checks etc).
It sounds like your DM's unwilling to deal with that kind of stuff, so for the safety and wellbeing of any tenants, it would be good to end her control of the situation!

I think you might need to visit the property and see what state it's in for yourself, arrange for the locks to be changed and then either (a) engage lettings agents to manage it; (b) make a deal with the local authority for them to use it as housing; (c) get it surveyed with a view to selling it, and find estate agents to deal with that process.

Hopefully you can afford to spend some money upfront on sorting out any urgent disrepair issues, then get this reimbursed when you eventually receive funds (from renting it out or selling it). At that point, you can decide what you do with the rest of the income. I;d be inclined to put it into a savings account - your DM's attitude about not making a will and letting you all 'fight' over inheritance stinks.

In form her that you are taking over the house and change the locks. I’d be very concerned that you have a tax liability from the rent that she should have given you over the years.
The simplest thing now is to arrange to sell it - you’ll be able to prove it’s yours to the estate agents and solicitors but be prepared to visit and share your documents.
You will pay for the costs of sale via the proceeds. It may be worth using a good local firm of solicitors for the sale in case your mother raises any issues.
I would keep the proceeds of sale after tax and inform your mother that she has already had return from her initial investment - provide a breakdown of costs.
i am sorry but I don’t believe you can guarantee a continued relationship with your family and they do not have your interests at heart so why is this so important to you? Break ties and you are free.

Your mum has always been difficult and is now even more so. Anything you do to resolve this situation will, in her eyes, be wrong. You need to think of your own future and having somewhere to live when you retire. Your mother has done very well out of the deal to date. She doesn't get to call the shots anymore. You'll just have to go ahead with alternate plans for the house whether selling up or renting out and tell her she can like it or lump it.

She's also not had any of the work or expense of being a landlord either .

I don't think it's helpful to OP to say "she's done well out of it", or the mother has... I suspect once the sums are really done and the work and investment is factored in, they both are more or less even, both have had a good deal in some ways and a less good deal in others.

OP has flounced, but if she's still reading, or for anyone in a similar situation, it's not helpful to hold on to all the emotion and resentment around it. The relationship sounds pretty poor as it is, but there's no need to deal with all the practical and financial side of it with your emotional head on - that way you will lose out because OP it's your house and you have to sort this mess out.

Get the figures correct - exactly what has everyone put in and got out in rent, in work, and what, in money, is owed (from your mother to you, or vice versa).

Find out what is the tax liability both on the rent and on any increase in value of the house.

Sell the house and regularise all the finances.

Sorry OP, I wasn't intending to be critical. I just think it's time to leave your Mum out of the arrangements, whatever names she chooses to call you.

It's got beyond her by the sound of it and I think you need to assume full responsibility for it

Do nothing in terms of sale without legal and financial advice. I'd look to a good tax accountant first. Is there anything documented about your agreement?
How it may appear legally given the house is in your name, is that your mother gifted you the cash to buy the house. Was this "gift" declared for CGT? Or was it treated as a loan which was repaid from the rent.
If you have been declaring the income annually as part of your tax return you have the been "gifting" your mother the rent annually. Or you have been paying her the rent for managing the property? Has she declared any of this income?
As you have been allowing her to take
Who signed the lease agreements? As your mother is not the owner she couldn't enter into a rental agreement without your signature and she still can't.
If a tax account identified that your mother should have been paying tax on the rental income you can use this as leverage. Tell her that unless she helps you sort this out in an agreeable manner you'll need to get legal advice and that may result in her being hit with a bill for unpaid taxes and associated fines.