Why are nursery fees not included in child maintenance?

[haeesgy]

Yes, I know it’s the resident parent’s choice whether to send the child to nursery… but the reality is it’s either that or don’t work..!

I would LOVE ex to have 50/50 care of our child. I didn’t have a child expecting him to turn up once a week (at best) for half a day. I didn’t want this, he left.

And now I’m left with child maintenance which is a long way from half nursery fees. Why is nothing done about this? Women treated appallingly again.

The opposite is true though.
Maintenance is based on your salary / childcare ratio. Of you were together, what money you spend on the child would be relative to what you earn.
If DH and I break up, I'm working full time on 60k and he was on 20k but childcare came out of shared accounts, making him pay 50% may literally mean him not having the money to pay. So now he's in jail for not paying / living on the floor or his mates shed.

How's that helpful?

Whereas on his salary he'd be more mindful of using family or a cheaper nursery etc.

But he can't because the Moon doesn't want to use a cheaper nursery further away or the ex mil she detests.

What about a RP who's a SAHP but wants the child in full time nursery now whereas it was unaffordable before?

It should be a consideration and more men should have half custody so they're genuinely responsible and obliged to sort childcare

I think we should replace the whole messy system with different tax rates. When a couple splits the mum should get a personal allowance increased by the personal allowance of all the children too. The man should lose his personal allowance. No avoiding it and mums will get much more money in our pockets.

Sorry? Firstly there's no tax relief for children and secondly, why exactly should the "man" (presumably regardless of whether he is the RP, the NRP, 50/50 care, whether he contributes fairly or whether he shirks responsibility of earning and paying for his children) be stripped of his tax allowance? And the "mum" (again presumably regardless of whether she is the RP, the NRP, 50/50 care or whether she contributes fairly or shirks responsibility of earning and paying for her children) be handed it? And even if they were- it's tax on £12k pa, so the 20% tax free on £12K passed over would only amount to 2400 a year anyway and wouldn't make a dent in nursery fees and would be significantly less than many NRPs pay under CMS.

If we had a system that gave additional tax relief for children, then yes, of course the tax relief relating to the child should be split in the proportion of the child's residence. So a fully RP could get 100% of tax relief relating to the children, 50/50 would be split equally, fully non resident would get £0. But we don't so it's a moot point.

I actually fully support fully funded childcare, with the expectation that BOTH parents go back to work full time from when their child is one, and BOTH parents financially contribute, in proportion to their earnings, to the upbringing of their children. Yes, there are far too many feckless NRPs who don't pay their way. Equally, there are plenty of RP who see their children as a meal ticket and think that having a child absolves them of the responsibility of working and supporting themselves and their child.

Indeed, what a fucking outdated cunt.

They are in my location outside of the uk. It’s the largest child related expense. It is also linked to custodial days and very often the NRP tries to have all their time on non-working days.

Absolutely insane not to include child care in maintenance calculations.

That’s not a ‘fact’ that can’t be changed. The more people that become aware, the more vocal people and campaigning groups become, the great chance that the rules can change. Politics innit.

Probably because the court system was created by men to benefit men.

I advised a lady going through impending divorce to go for 50/50 yesterday and was jumped on by others who meant the fathers would then not have to pay anything, failing to understand the exact scenario the OP is in.

I don’t think anyone will be successful in changing anything in the UK unless it’s the fathers who have to look after the children and it’s the women who pay child support. Won’t take long to see things change then I bet.

Childcare is as essential to society as education and the NHS so should be free at the point of delivery (ie paid collectively by the taxpayer).

Child maintenance is something else.

Ex is a millionaire & I've never had a penny.

Even worse the taxpayer footed a huge bill in tax credits for the full time childcare I used.

If the post office can jail subpostmasters for unpaid bills then why can't the government start jailing non paying deadbeat dads?

Take their passports, take their driving licences. They have these powers & don't use them.

Even better charge them with child neglect so they are classed as criminal offenders against children so they fail police vetting for jobs.

There should be a sort of pension paid for single parents that can be used to pay for childcare as well as the other children's needs. The amount would depend on the age of the child(ren) and any special needs.

It should be paid in the same way as a student loan with the 'debt' shared between parents (with special needs paid by government) to be paid from income after your child is a certain age.

I've not fully worked this out so please comment on how this could work.

Unfortunately because it’s not the single parents who make the rules.

I agree, it's disgusting. My sister is going through a nasty divorce and because her ex pays child maintenance, he doesn't think he should contribute towards childcare costs. So she's been forced to pay the nursery fees so she can work, while he can work as many days as he likes every week without a second thought as to where his child is or who's looking after her. The child maintenance he pays doesn't even scratch the surface of the nursery fees. The system is completely broken. If she doesn't pay for nursery, she'd be forced to get a job working the one evening a week he has their daughter and every other Saturday when he has her. Not sure how she's supposed to live off that kind of income. I had no idea the set up was so anti women until she went through this.

It is quite rare that a nrp doesn't get any help at all from the benefit system for childcare. Even on your income OP, you might very well be entitled. Then there's the scheme and free hours from 3 years old.

My childcare bill is £2k per month alone as I have twins and an older child.

Ex pays £300 per month total

It's not a choice whether to send them to childcare not

I can't force him to pay more

It is very very common!

I am a bit tired of the single mothers stereotyped as benefit scroungers. Many of us are educated with strong careers, and the only way we can hold on to those careers is to pay an equivalent of another morgage on a childcare.

I am a bit tired of the single mothers stereotyped as benefit scroungers. Many of us are educated with strong careers, and the only way we can hold on to those careers is to pay an equivalent of another morgage on a childcare
I was a very educated well paid single mum and I received a bit of help with childcare, albeit not a lot. I received NO maintenance at all from their dad.

I certainly had the last laugh when my youngest was finally old enough not to require childcare though. I felt I'd earn the lottery! The difference was put into the mortgage and that was then paid off a few years later. I now can consider retiring before 60.

I did it on my own and I'm very proud of it. Their dad can live with the deep seated shame and the knowledge that his children have not much respect for his financial conduct.

I am a bit tired of the single mothers stereotyped as benefit scroungers. Many of us are educated with strong careers, and the only way we can hold on to those careers is to pay an equivalent of another morgage on a childcare.

100% this

My twins childcare is twice my mortgage at £2k per month. I have more than one degree and a professional qualification - I earn over the child benefit threshold so don't even get that.

I work full time because I have to and to try and I still in my children ambition and work ethic - I've taken out long term loans to pay to spread child costs over 10 years. Anything and everything is possible

You are right. It is unfair. And I agree that the Government shouldn't be paying - tax payers already pay some nursery and school fees etc. Taxes should not go up; parents should pay 50/50.

The likelihood of that could just mean that neither parent can afford to work which means the resident parent would get even less money from the non resident parent (assuming they were already paying). Also it would be likely that the non resident parent wouldn't be able to have the children over night as they will probably be in a shared house/sofa surfing so won't have anywhere suitable to bring the children back to due to not being able to afford something better.

It would be much better if we did raise taxes that tiny bit so that childcare was free/very affordable. Doing that will help alleviate poverty as the resident parent can then work, give the children better outcomes in life and help raise tax due to the newly working parent's increased income.

It would be much better if we did raise taxes that tiny bit so that childcare was free/very affordable.

I don’t want to pay any more tax for this.

There should as a minimum be a government rate, and the nrp must pay 50% of all childcare hours (after any funded hours are taken off) used by the child at that rate. It should be in addition to other maintenance. Ideally both parents would simply be 50% liable for any childcare bill, but it gets difficult where one parent chooses the swankiest glossy nursery in town where the other parent can't afford that and would like to use a cost effective childminder.

Its one of the things I always think is absurd though, that its very easy for nrp to basically dodge childcare costs. 9% of income is nowhere near enough.

Probably the only answer is for the mother to refuse more than 50% care of the child and leave partner to sort childcare for "their" days.

The UK isn’t particularly family friendly so it isn’t surprising, childcare in the UK is very expensive. Where we now live fulltime childcare for our daughter is about £89 a month as she is our second child, so fees are a bit cheaper. Here when parents split a financial agreement must be made, it doesn’t depend on their marital status. If a NRP refuses to pay the government steps in and pays from about £130-190 a month depending on the age of the child, this becomes debt which is chased up. The amount is also guaranteed to cover childcare costs.

Here the childs costs make a part of maintenance, including clubs, clothing, buying presents and the RPs housing costs etc. I just used our government website and if we were to break up and weren’t 50/50 I would have to pay £578 per month or he would have to pay £654 per month for a two year old and an eight year old. When you then consider that the entire childcare costs are about £89, that does provide enough for food, clothing, heating, hobbies etc.

So here essentially RP parent A NRP parent B

child support = childs cost x (B’s surplus/ surplus for A+B)

You’d probably find that you’d be paying less tax (or just the same) because childcare subsidies enable more women to work and to work more. So they pay more tax as a result. Long term they pay much more tax than if they’d been out of the workforce for many years.

Do you qualify for UC or tax credits etc to help?