How to get somebody sectioned?

[Freshstarts24]

I don’t want to give too much identifying details but would really appreciate some advice. Adult dd, quite serious undiagnosed mh issues, not had any professional support since discharging as a teen. Now quite heavily reliant on drugs which are causing physical health problems and exasperating mh issues.
Outpatient support at this point is not going to help, she needs to be admitted somewhere but I have no idea how to access this? Where do I start? I know the drugs muddy the waters so I don’t even know what type of support to look at but the root cause is obviously mh.

At least 2 (possibly 3) health care professionals have to agree to get someone sectioned.

If you are worried about your daughter immediate wellbeing then take her to AE .Otherwise contact MH crisis team . Am so sorry you are experiencing this with your daughter.Xx

You ne to take her to A&E for Mh assessment there you will be with her
if you went to the gp they would only tell you to go to A&E anyway for Mh assessment

why can’t she engage, talk to people

is it bad anxiety symptoms?

I was going to say the same, @Windmill34 - OP, what is it that so utterly prevents her from attending any appointments, and is that something that can be worked on rather than just accepting it? How is she so sure that she'll engage from an (hypothetical) inpatient bed, if she's so unable to engage as an outpatient?

It sounds as though she needs to go to rehab. In your situation I would arrange it privately because the only way she is likely to get a government funded place is through the local drug and alcohol service and she will have to engage with them to get it.

I’m so so sorry you’re going through this OP. This is just my experience with family members, but the demand for a MH bed is very high and in my area she would have to be worse than what you’re describing to get one. Your crisis team will be better able to advise you on the situation in your area.

Do you know what’s making her not engage with her appointments? If it’s something like not feeling listened to at appointments or feeling overwhelmed with the number of people/ stages involved it might be better seeking help privately if this is something you can afford.

The misuse of the word 'sectioned' really annoys me

1. It is a colloquialism that MH professionals do not use. The correct term is detained under the mental health act

1. No-one who is asking to be 'sectioned' could ever be detained by definition. You can only be detained if you are refusing voluntary treatment. Most people using the term just mean 'admitted to a mental health hospital' which can obviously happen without detention

1. Drugs and alcohol are legal exclusions under the MH Act. You cannot be detained for substance misuse alone as it is not a mental disorder within the meaning of the MH Act.

1. The patients nearest relative does have a right in law to request an MHA assessment but only to request not for it to actually happen and the AMHP (social worker in charge of MHA detention) will refuse the assessment if it is not appropriate especially if no less restrictive options have been tried.

So OP
What mental disorder do you think your DD has?
What treatment do you think she requires and why could this only happen as an inpatient?

She is extremely unlikely to get admitted to hospital as a first intervention either informally or under MHA.
She needs to do one of

• call 111 mental health option if it exists in your area
• go to her GP and ask for a referral to the MH team
• self refer to the local drug and alcohol service
• go to A&E only if it is an emergency

My relative was sectioned when she was mid crisis and my dsis phoned an ambulance as she was unresponsive, not eating drinking or visiting the toilet and holding her breath. Was in A&E overnight and then assessed in the morning and was more responsive after she’d completed her ‘initiation ceremony’ talking about her delusions etc. One doctor agreed it was in the normal realms of religious beliefs and she was sent home with crisis team to visit. They didn’t as some paperwork was messed up. She had another episode at home and was sectioned. She lived alone.

They won’t section her if you’re able to look after her at all. She has to be very high risk so you must make that clear and so must your dd. I’m so sorry you’re going through this. I would also explore rehab centres.

You are detained under different sections of the mental health act though. So it can be different amounts of time which is where the word section comes from.

Well yes I do know that but it's still incorrect and the way it is getting bandied about on this thread is misleading

Believe it or not there are a lot of people who want to be sectioned, they usually aren’t the ones who are sectioned because if you want to be sectioned then you still have orientation and mental capacity. The threshold for acute care wards is pretty much complete dissociation from reality. If she knows who she is, what year it is, and where she is, she is unlikely to get sectioned even if she really needs it.

Have been both sectioned and voluntary patient. I would say no one would want to go to an inpatient facility! The ones I have been in (numerous, uk) have no real treatment going on, other than stabilising on meds ready to discharge. They are bright, loud and scary, not a place I ever found restful! I think your dd thinks it will be something that helps- I really would urge you to consider outpatient help. A lot of people (including myself) don't engage well when unwell, but in my case I didn't want to speak to anyone, once I was medicated and felt better I engaged more. I also didn't have drug or alcohol issues so don't know how that affects things.

What @Bandolina has said is absolutely correct.

Follow her advice on seeking help for your daughter OP.

She is unable to engage but is able to go out and seek drugs?

So if she wants to go in to hospital, you need to speak to the local mental health services about a voluntary admission. They will assess whether this is appropriate but someone who wants to go to hospital won’t be “sectioned” as this involves detaining them against their will and legally if someone consents to an admissions they shouldn’t be detained.

try your local mental health helpline or crisis team but also be aware there can be weeks waiting for a bed…regardless of whether you are sectioned or voluntarily admitted.

I asked my care coordinator if I could 'section' myself. She said yes, but it wouldn't be called a section, it would be a voluntary admission to hospital.

@NotARealWookiie

If you are ‘sectioned’ you will be detained in hospital, possibly against your will. There is no waiting involved.

Being detained under the Mental Health Act is always against your will, not “possibly” and sadly beds are not immediately available in the UK as the hospitals tend to be full.

@NotARealWookiie Yes, it is true to say that you don’t have a say in being detained and treated but it can be a relief for the person involved to be taken in. Literally given asylum.

I.used to be a mental.health nurse you can't just have someone sectioned its usually two Drs and a an approved mental health practioner that make the decision to section people and if she's willing to get help then its highly unlikely she would be sectioned
In the trust I used to work for the crisis team were based in our local A and E and there job is carry out mental health assessments ,she could also go to.her GP they might be able to refer her to the community drug team

@Bandolina
She think she has a personality disorder. She has suffered from depression for at least 6 years and I believe possibly has undiagnosed asd too.
She has attempted suicide several times. All prior to drug use.

At the point she is now, she cannot engage with services. The telephone consultations, the initial appointments etc. She just will not attend. Her life is chaos. She can not organise herself. She has no desire to sit and talk to somebody she doesn’t know and feels like she gets nowhere. She has tried the gp previously. She (and I) feel like intensive inpatient treatment is necessary. She doesn’t live at home so I can’t even support her to get to appointments.

Well yes, that’s kind of the point. Do you not see how the 2 are quite different?

Absolutely can’t afford to go private. No chance.

I can not let her die though and that is absolutely what is going to happen one way or another.

Intensive inpatient is extremely difficult to get, it is usually as short a stay as possible as they need the beds! If it is a personality disorder there are specialist inpatient places but getting into them is really hard, if she is placed on a general ward there is in my experience not a lot if any treatment, it is just about keeping you safe until stabelised. Private may be an option but I have never looked into it as couldn't afford it. Being hospitalised doesn't change what is going on in your life, just gives you chance to stop and think for a bit until you join the merry go round again! Speaking from personal experience.

It's unlikely you'll get her admitted on the NHS until she's considered at serious risk of causing harm to herself or others. In practice this means she needs to actually physically harm herself or someone else before she will be taken seriously.