How to get somebody sectioned?

[Freshstarts24]

I don’t want to give too much identifying details but would really appreciate some advice. Adult dd, quite serious undiagnosed mh issues, not had any professional support since discharging as a teen. Now quite heavily reliant on drugs which are causing physical health problems and exasperating mh issues.
Outpatient support at this point is not going to help, she needs to be admitted somewhere but I have no idea how to access this? Where do I start? I know the drugs muddy the waters so I don’t even know what type of support to look at but the root cause is obviously mh.

I was sectioned in November, it was my 6th or 7th section I think. My psych recommended a MHAA and they then agreed with him I was a danger to myself and others and sectioned me. I had to wait 24 hours for a bed and that was short, lots of people were waiting several days but they prioritised me. I’m happy to chat if you need an ear.

Sounds like she needs rehab rather than a Section to be honest, and I know anout both due to friends and ex. As PP said, acute mental health wards are often very disturbing places to be. As other have said, start with GP re drug use. Best wishes.

@Freshstarts24

I'm so sorry op I've been in a similar situation with a relative and it's terrifying.

The same as your situation nobody would talk to us,not even crisis team.

We begged the gp to help with a section but they can only do an emergency referral which was taking a long time and we were told by crisis team when they did call that unless the person has harmed themselves or someone else physically there was nothing they could do.
They don't even send the police to mental health call outs anymore.

Sadly relative did harm themselves and as much as it was horrendous at the time an admittal to a and e via ambulance meant they had to be seen by a phsychiatrist before they were allowed to leave.

Luckily they agreed a mood stabiliser medication and referred for a support worker within 24 hours and I'm so glad they did because we are coming out the other side slowly.

It's terrifying when there it literally nothing you can do to get help and trying to keep someone safe from themselves is absolutely all consuming and draining in your own mental well being.

Sending unmumsnetty hugs

It’s such a minefield. The drugs are definitely being used because of the mh issues as they were present long before drug use. She took overdoses several time in teenage years but hasn’t done so for years now.
She understand she needs help but lacks the capacity or motivation to attend appointments or follow through with anything. She’s in a bad way and although I don’t think she’s in immediate danger, I honestly do not think she’ll see 2025 if this carries on. She’s said as much and I believe her.
If she needs support for the drug use before she can be assessed for anything else I’ve got no idea how to access that either. I’ve looked into things locally and it’s all groups and counselling which she won’t attend. She needs to be in a facility of some sort.

I know. I’m terrified but I genuinely don’t know how else to get her help.

I will start with calling the crisis team

@Freshstarts24

Just a thought but is there a drug and alcohol nhs funded organisation in your area?

In our area it used to be called together but I'm not sure what it is now.

You could get in touch with them and explain the situation.
Has she been engaging with services like that before?if so she will have a support worker or at least be on a list somewhere.

You could call and give her name and explain and ask for them to try and contact her?

Let me see if I can find any info a sec

@Freshstarts24

A lot of the individual services have now merged under one name

It's a charity called

Humankind

If you Google it there are sections for drugs alcohol mental health and well being.

It also states you can refer a vulnerable person

Crisis team you can ring yourself or get the GP to do it for you when you are with them. My mum had to do it re my dad last year, they came out did a home visit. Agreed he did need sectioning, capacity assessment was done… however there were no beds. He was managed by the crisis team at home and then passed to the community mental health team after about a month or so.
the mental health services are a bit of a mess as is the NHS.

i don't know much but hope you get the help you both need xx

My worry is, if I refer, it then requires her to engage. Its not that she doesn’t want to, she’s literally unable to.

@dothehokeycokey But I will check it out anyway thank you

I'm so sorry I have some understanding of what a difficult situation this is. I've arranged support for my brother - he is an alcoholic, with mental health issues. We had been down so many routes to access help with no success, til we contacted social services. They were able to arrange a multi disciplinary meeting that led to a court order and professionals arriving at his address to take him to be assessed. (We had had two police welfare checks on him at that time - and the police felt he was fine- after speaking to him through a window) from first phone call - to him being approached to be taken to be assessed took six days. He is now supported under a hospital, (lives at home still) and has multiple weekly interventions and visits and support, it's not resolved his behaviour and issues - but, at least there is some help now and professionals involved. Social services pulled everything together for us, because each attempt previously drew a blank- ie can't treat the mental health issues because of the alcohol abuse- I'd recommend support for yourself too if possible. There are various support groups and organisations that help parents, I wish my DM and DD would engage in support for themselves.

I have been sectioned several times. I've also been an informal patient meaning I was admitted voluntarily.

If she isn't currently under the care of any mental health services, I would suggest your daughter presents to her GP in the first instance, explaining that she would like to admit herself to a Psychiatric Unit informally. Failing that, present to A&E and request an assessment.

Psych wards of course aren't the nicest places, but they can be helpful in the short term in getting someone out of a crisis and into a better place mentally, so that they can then continue treatment at home.

Can you afford private rehab treatment at the priory or similar?

What prevents her from engaging? Is it the substance abuse or a MH issue? Have you started with the GP?

Can you afford a private assessment? I think you can even get home visits by Psychiatrists if you are able to afford it. That might only be in London though?

Or private rehab?

My experience is that mental health services require the drug issues to be dealt with first. Someone I know presented at A&E asking to be sectioned. They were a danger to themselves and others. They couldn't get sectioned. There was not a single MH bed available in the country. They were given detox drugs and turfed out of A&E. However, the crisis team did come out a couple of days later. Unfortunately, this person couldn't engage either, so it didn't go anywhere. It's heartbreaking and terrifying. Literally the only "options" were private, which hardly anyone can afford.

Sadly I have had to ask for a close relative to be sectioned twice, and it didn't happen like this at all.

Is there a risk your Dd could harm herself? If so call the local Crisis Team, get the no from 111 or whatever the number is for urgent nhs care. Crisis team come to your home and assess from there.

What would you hope sectioning would achieve? I just have found when I’m sectioned it is basically about medication and getting me stable. You don’t really get much else. They are so busy in the wards. Very unwell people. I find it very noisy and overwhelming. People trying to end their lives so alarms going off. Psychotic patients (like me, I have schizophrenia they think) shouting and hallucinating. Staff stretched to breaking point. Psychs visit once a week so mostly it is a holding pen. It’s not nice.

I've known people to be sectioned into rehab, arriving in an ambulance. However, I think they were already under psychiatric care. I'm so sorry for your daughter, and you Her best options seem to be via your GP, turning up at A&E in a massive state, social services, or starting with the charity mentioned by dothehokeycokey.

In this case, "engagement" doesn't mean being able to calmly explain what the problem is! Just being present and reacting somehow. Best of luck xx

Most will be offered an informal stay. Section is usually via a&e or taken in by the police as there is risk of harm to self or others. Drugs can induce psychosis so will not necessarily negate an admission. Mental health services are very stretched and so many people that need the help are being managed out of hospital. Mental health admissions also tend to be on average longer than physical health admissions as such space is limited in dedicated hospitals.

In my area drug and alcohol services have a friend's and family service to provide support to friends and family and they can help answer general queries around process, systems etc. I would see if the service in your area does something similar. I would ask them about the criteria for residential rehab. Sometimes there are services which offer more " assertive outreach" for people who find it harder to engage. Drug and alcohol services are often run by a private or 3rd sector organisation but still funded and commissioned by the local 'health board'. I would try to find out who the local provider is, and then just ring them and try and speak to someone. If you can do it sat with her she can give you permission to talk to them. With GPs etc, yes they won't share info with you, but it doesn't stop you sharing info with the GP, you can see if they have an email address or online form and tell them your concerns about her. Another option is work out who the local carer support organisation is to you, approach them and say you are her carer and ask for advice. They should be able to give some starters on who all the different services are, who does what, how you contact them etc.

I think A&E is your starting point. They would most likely send her to Clinical Decision ward but they would not start to assess her until she was clean of any drugs in her system. This can take hours or go in to the next day. They would then do an assessment and hopefully come up with a treatment plan and/or refer you to outside agencies. Sectioning would be the last resort and Mental Health hospitals are bursting at the seams. Some patients are put in to a hospital completely out of their area and she could end up at the other end of the country.

With Mental Health Illnesses and drug abuse it is a vicious circle as they won't treat anyone under the influence of anything but people are taking substances because they are not getting the much needed help for their Mental Health Illness. It just goes round and round. Try and get a referral for help with the drug abuse. She can be detoxed as an outpatient in a controlled way.

My sisters ex. I’m sure my sister took him to A and E . He was assessed and admitted but not sectioned. He wasn’t sectioned till he threatened a nurse. That was many years ago.