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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To want to go to medical school at 37?

432 replies

MilanHilton · 03/01/2024 08:02

I’m 37, married with two nursery aged children. Husband and I both earn £45k each so we live comfortably but not well off.

My medical care when I was pregnant was atrocious and the NHS was negligent (they admitted it). Which really got me thinking… I want to be a doctor that LISTENS to women so that what happened to me won’t happen to another lady.

I know I’m old, and coming from a non science background I’ll have to do 6 years in medical school and then extra training to be an OBGYN. Looking at the junior doctor pay bands it is going to take me years to get back to my current salary. Not to mention needing to do shift work and the stress of it all.

Financially it will be a tight decade and by the time I finish uni, the kids will be towards the end of primary so hopefully life will be easier. I’ll be mid 40s when I finish medical school so will still have another 20 years of working still.

AIBU for considering putting my young family through a decade of financial and emotional stress with the hope that I’ll earn more in the future? Is it worth the stress?

AINBU - go be a doctor! You’ll save lives (sometimes)
AIBU - that’s too much work and financial turmoil, even if you become a doctor you’re not going to address the chronic lack of resource in NHS

OP posts:
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5
Gunnersforthecup · 03/01/2024 12:47

Another option would be to do a degree in a health related field. If you have an arts degree, say, would you be able to do some qualititative research looking at people's experience of healthcare?

If you are passionate about the subject, you could dive deep into just that topic (without all the preclinical study and in call etc).

Often in medical research departments, there can be very senior non medics who are really highly thought of. They might end up doing very similar work to medics in research, and have equal or greater status, but didn't need to have done the medical degree, the on call etc.

housethatbuiltme · 03/01/2024 12:49

I studied a medical field and the first day of my course they said 'Congratulations on attending university. By the time you graduate your jobs will mostly be done by a robot and you'll be retraining as an medical engineer to fix that robot. You should have just gone straight into engineering'.

I have no idea how true that is as my degree has never actually been used for its intended purpose. NHS hours are way to long, work far too hard and the pay way to low to justify it being an option in my life right now.

My DS was 3 and very easy child when I started, it was stressful but now I have 2 more much more difficult children it would be impossible.

You also tend to need more studies to get into specialist areas, like my best friend had to study and intern for an extra 2 years after her degree to qualify and get licensed in her field.

If you have lots of free time to fill, don't mind working yourself to death and are willing to do it for not much money then go for it but I wouldn't recommend it. If I could go back I would probably have picked something else.

Coachvikki · 03/01/2024 12:51

I retrained into Psychology at 38. I am 4 years in and I still have 2 years of my doctorate left. It is hard, really hard and I don't have children. That said, if it is something you really want you should do it.

My advice would be to seek out some people who have done their training late and truely understand what you are setting yourself up for. Then do it

therealcookiemonster · 03/01/2024 12:53

@MilanHilton have read all your posts now. can't believe they missed a PE!!!!!!! I hope you put in a complaint. being short of time to not 100% be able to empathise is one thing but what you describe is down right negligence

I think volunteering is a great idea. given your experience, maybe look into volunteering for PALS?

Viviennemary · 03/01/2024 12:54

It will be a very hard struggle. Even harder with no science background. No I don't think it would wise in your circumstances.

HermioneHerman · 03/01/2024 12:57

Have you heard of the nationwide Maternity Partnerships, OP? https://nationalmaternityvoices.org.uk/

They are wonderful advocacy and campaigning organisations that work with NHS Trusts to influence maternity policy and improve care and outcomes etc. Volunteering with your local one might be a great place to start and they do have jobs from time to time too.

National Maternity Voices – Networking Maternity Voices Partnerships in England

https://nationalmaternityvoices.org.uk

PieAndLattes · 03/01/2024 13:00

Would you be able to meet the entrance requirements? Medicine is very, very, competitive. You’ll be asked for 3 A* grades (or equivalent) in science subjects at A level. I don’t know what your first degree is in, but would it be possible to go into medical law or something like that?

Bananabreadandstrawberries · 03/01/2024 13:05

You can help support pregnant women and new mothers in your community in your own way.

You’re not too thin-skinned, you’re just 20 years too old and a few kids too many, from where considering starting training as a doctor was a plausible idea.

You’re approach and preparedness to this idea also shows insights into your cognitive skills that would not be best suited as a doctor.

Realdeal1 · 03/01/2024 13:11

@MilanHilton agree with others in that my medic friends are leaving the profession for things like community medics. It's just too much pressure plus leaves them very little time for their own families.

Basketsuitcase · 03/01/2024 13:16

zendeveloper · 03/01/2024 12:26

I know someone who started at 45 or thereabouts, no science background after GCSE / O-levels, a single parent to two very young children, and they are graduating this year - I believe on track for a first. So definitely doable. But probably easier as their children live full time with another parent, and there has been no big pressure to contribute financially as the other parent is earning ok money. I think they ended with a 50K+ debt anyway.

Not the same situation. The "parent" you have described isn't burdened at all with child care responsibilities.

Scirocco · 03/01/2024 13:21

@MilanHilton

I'm a doctor, and I think it's the best job in the world. It's hard work, but if you're interested, there's no harm in finding out a bit more to see if it's for you.

I've met quite a few people who started studying and training in their 30s. Age isn't a barrier and the experience you could bring could be an asset.

nestofvipers · 03/01/2024 13:26

user1492757084 · 03/01/2024 11:24

Can you work part time and study part time?
Can you train first as an emergency nurse then upgrade.
Can you get funding by training in remote locations?
You might always work part time in medicine.

No, no and no.
Medicine is a full time degree. You can’t do it part time in the UK.

Training as an emergency nurse and then “upgrading”- if by this you mean becoming a doctor, you still have to go to medical school. There’s no way around that.

You’ll be sent to remote locations to train as you’ll rotate through different hospitals to some extent on placement as a student and even more so when you start working.

You have limited choice on where you train and once you’re on a training rotation you’ll be working where the deanery sends you. You don’t get to choose this and there’s no funding for being allocated somewhere remote for your training. A deanery can cover a wide area (eg the entire of wales) and you can be sent to any of the hospitals in that area.

notmorezoom · 03/01/2024 13:29

Scirocco · 03/01/2024 13:21

@MilanHilton

I'm a doctor, and I think it's the best job in the world. It's hard work, but if you're interested, there's no harm in finding out a bit more to see if it's for you.

I've met quite a few people who started studying and training in their 30s. Age isn't a barrier and the experience you could bring could be an asset.

Late 30s? With children, but without unlimited funds for hot and cold running childcare?

NotAClueZ · 03/01/2024 13:29

I think the issue isn't your age objectively as you say, you potentially would have 20 years in a new career. It's not uncommon for any profession to have late entrants like medicine, vet science, nursing, law, accountancy, as a second career.

I think the issue is likely to be energy levels and enthusiasm (or youthful ambitious turbo-power which is another way of putting it).

I work in a profession and any profession is very hierachical because people who have more experience, have seen more and know more. An average person + a lot of experience = a good person. The very best people + a lot of experience = a superlative guru.

This results in the junior people in most of these professsions being 'looked down on' and expected to do a lot of tough working - long hours, unsociable, not that interesting - as it is this labour that keeps the machines grinding.

When you are young and stupid some might say, you have a number of big energy drivers that are likely to be lacking as you get older -

*one is the basic desire to qualify and get a degree. You have to press on as this is where you are and you need to graduate.

*you are still used to education as a school leaver and university entrant. Taking exams is a skill that once you get out of its hard to get back into. Its not impossible just harder that it was when you are in the groove of it.

*the next is the basic desire to get a first job to progress your ambitions. This feels different at 25 than it will do at 45. In one sense you have more options, because you can take a low paid job because it is of interest to you or you feel you'd benefit long term career wise as it's under the wing of Mr Super Professor.

*Next is still being used to a hard student grind so it doesnt feel so bad. If you are 45 and have had years of other working life experience, maybe have other financial demands what you are able to accept or willing to accept or capable of tolerating with good grace and energy

*Finally there is the basic human problem of finding it harder to deal with the (sorry to say) basic lack of respect in the way juniors in professions tend to be treated simply because they are junior and lack experience. I've seen this and people who had first careers where they were really senior sometimes can really struggle with this. It counts for nothing in the eyes of the profession. It really doesn't matter if you once ran Tescos globally if you need to cut a piece of bone out of a skull under the eye of the senior surgeon.

If you are keen 100% go for it. It is totally achievable and people do do it but you will need to be confident you have enough drive and determination to power through the tough aspects.

zendeveloper · 03/01/2024 13:36

Basketsuitcase · 03/01/2024 13:16

Not the same situation. The "parent" you have described isn't burdened at all with child care responsibilities.

Yes, but OP has a partner who might be completely on board with the idea and cover the childcare side of it. Or other family members might be willing to step in as well. Or a nanny might be an option.

In the case I mentioned, the parent still has the children over regularly for a weekend / holiday, and fully responsible for any childcare needs during this time (e.g. if needs to study or attend a practical course at the hospital). At least once a month.

ToeSucker · 03/01/2024 13:38

I would like you to be aware of the trend that conscientious and thorough doctors are more likely to suffer significant mental health problems and even leave the profession entirely. This is due to a system that not only disincentivises, but generally penalises thorough care. Look at some of the studies on moral injury.

That said, qualifying as a doctor does not mean you need to stay in the profession or stay in the UK.

ToeSucker · 03/01/2024 13:41

Do consider the physicians associate training scheme though. Better pay, shorter training course and will be doing what a lot of doctors do once GMC regulated.

HermioneHerman · 03/01/2024 13:43

ToeSucker · 03/01/2024 13:38

I would like you to be aware of the trend that conscientious and thorough doctors are more likely to suffer significant mental health problems and even leave the profession entirely. This is due to a system that not only disincentivises, but generally penalises thorough care. Look at some of the studies on moral injury.

That said, qualifying as a doctor does not mean you need to stay in the profession or stay in the UK.

This is sadly true although I wish it wasn't. I had a lecture the other day about addiction and MH issues in doctors and medical students which are vastly more prevalent than in the general population, also sadly. It's also mature students, possibly living further out from med school and with other responsibilities such as kids or caring for elderly parents who are apparently most likely to be affected. I'm doing it but aware I'm high risk and years of NHS service have helped with realistic expectations, plus I don't drink. It's still worrying though. I'm not at all backwards in asking for help and making use of all available avenues of support even at this very early stage in my first year.

369damnshesfine · 03/01/2024 13:47

OP I think it’s incredible that you want to retrain and make the world a bit of a better place to live.

As women, we complain that our voices don’t get heard and then some take issues with someone trying to change things.

I think it’s amazing ……. although I’m not sure I would give up such a high salary!!

You are at a great age to do it but studying and being a parent/partner is very difficult, as well as the huge drop in salary for years (in your case it would literally be half which you are going to feel).

But I’m sure you could always find another job in your current career (unless it’s very niche) and do you might as well try it and then worst comes to worst and you decide it’s actually not worth the hassle, then just go back into your old job or a new career.

369damnshesfine · 03/01/2024 13:47

ToeSucker · 03/01/2024 13:41

Do consider the physicians associate training scheme though. Better pay, shorter training course and will be doing what a lot of doctors do once GMC regulated.

Good idea!

Dreemhouse · 03/01/2024 13:50

I’m in my final year of an AHP degree, DH in military and we have a child. If I knew the impact this would have had on my life, I wouldn’t have done it. I sailed through university when I was 18. My brain is 20 years older and feels it. I cannot imagine how hard it would be to retrain as a doctor at this age. I feel guilty about not spending enough time with my family, not spending enough time studying. I’m just about keeping my head above water. I think it’s admirable what you would like to do, and hopefully you can find suggestions by other PPs useful

TheSquareMile · 03/01/2024 13:53

What kind of course is the Foundation Year at your local University, OP?

When would you need to apply for it by?

What is the situation for students who take that course? Do they apply for Medicine at the same University during their year studying?

I was wondering whether it was a kind of Access course which enabled students to apply for subjects such as Nursing too.

Scaraben · 03/01/2024 13:58

I'm a doctor. Don't do it.

I'm a consultant. My DH is still in training as he took time out to do a PhD. He was a postgraduate on entry to medical school so graduated at 28 and now at 42 is finally in his last year as a registrar. The last 3 years of shift work have absolutely broken him. 12-15hrs, 4 on then a day off then patterns reversed. The physical demands of being up all night operating, running to different departments, along with the demands of being a senior decision maker and people constantly paging you for advice, are taking their toll on him. And he's a senior registrar. It's much worse for FYs and core trainees. He came home on new years day 2 hours late, absolutely ashen having not eaten or peed all night, dealt with multiple stabbings and been spat at and punched by a patients relative. This is the reality.

I work in a niche specialty that is more 9-5 than surgery or obstetrics and my on calls are residential (so you have to stay in the hospital) but with a space to rest. And I'm only in my 30s and I'm bloody tired.

We are both actively seeking ways out. I've been headhunted for a job working for a pharmaceutical company which will increase my salary by 35k instantly and allow me to wfh 9-5 3 days a week with one in the office. I love my job and am committed to my patients but with two small children I am not sure I will be able to turn it down.

If you want to help people, retrain in something else. Or volunteer if you have the time.

squigglygiggly · 03/01/2024 14:15

TheGoogleMum · 03/01/2024 08:08

@CanaryCanary those roles don't earn 45k though do they? I think OP wants to eventually get back to and exceed current earnings

With around 10 years experience a midwife can be on £45k. Scale goes up to about &66k but that takes a lot longer.
Tbh the OP would hit £45 in a similar timeframe as a midwife than doctor as the training is so much longer.

ToeSucker · 03/01/2024 14:17

@HermioneHerman Yes this is also true. Generally those who fair best have more family support and less responsibility in their personal lives. And/or are less perfectionist and conscientious.

I am of the somewhat controversial opinion that medicine is a semi-dying profession.