Daughter and sleep ruining my life

[Nomosapien]

I know it sounds dramatic but I am at my wits end and becoming depressed as a result of my almost 5 year olds sleep issues.

Shes such a brilliant child but she has been so clingy to me from birth and it’s such a challenge. I have tried everything over the years including crying it out which I am ashamed of but I was desperate. My daughter simply will not fall asleep unless I am in the bed with her. I can’t just be next to her, I can’t be in the room, I need to be physically with her and touching her for her to sleep. My partner (her dad) tries so hard to persist but she will scream for hours until I give in.

I put her to bed at 7pm usually, and I walk out of the room to feed my 5 month old and attempt to have some time with my partner once she has fallen asleep. After 20 minutes of leaving the room she screams until I come up. If I don’t hear immediately, she will come downstairs and cry uncontrollably even once I’m back in bed with her. On a good night she will wake twice and cry for me to come back. Christmas Day I was laying in bed with her for two and a half hours.

She also wakes in the night screaming and thrashing even when I’m in bed with her and it’s been known for her to cry and thrash violently for over an hour and she is utterly inconsolable during this time. Myself and my partner sleep in different rooms as a result.

I have tried explaining why I need to leave the room before she falls asleep so I’m not just disappearing. I have tried reward charts, bribery, positive reinforcement for other good behaviours, sitting next to the bed, sitting outside the bedroom, crying it out (when she was around 9 months), altering her diet and eating windows. She doesn’t nap at all so it’s not that either.

I would really like to hear some advice or experiences from anyone who has a similar child or can objectively offer a view on what I could do that I haven’t thought of.

My mental health is really suffering now.

That sounds really tough, I'm sorry that I don't have any advice but hopefully someone more knowledgeable will be along soon

No advice, but almost identical situation which is also making me feel depressed and suffocated.

Solidarity x

oh op, that's rough.

Is it possible for you and baby to leave for a couple nights to remove the option of having you?

you'll hate it and feel guilty but you know she won't come to any harm. Might help reset things?

Not as extreme for us but dd definitely went through a phase of wanting only me to sit for hours with her to fall asleep. Only thing that worked was us being persistent with having DH do all bedtimes for a couple weeks. I took myself out to walk/see friends etc and let them figure it out.

We went through something similar with our youngest. You need to start slow. Just pop to the loo and then go straight back. Pop downstairs to get something, and go straight back. You also need to slowly edge away. Can you fit a double bed in her room so you can do a more subtle slow retreat? It's a long process. The important thing is to always keep your word. As you build up to longer away, always go back when you say. If it's half an hour and you think she might have fallen asleep and don't want to risk waking her, you absolutely risk waking her and go to check because she needs to know that you're definitely coming back. I can't remember how long it took but there was definitely a stage of sitting on the landing with the door open so she could see me. You're in for the long haul, several months at least, maybe over a year, but it is possible.

Get a sleep consultant.

Get yourself the Ferber sleep training book.

Cold turkey. Hand over to Dad for 2 weeks.

Sounds like she has night terrors?

My daughter is the exact same. Ever since we moved her from her cot into her own little bed.
Id spend hours sometimes lying next to her until she fell asleep.
Now she sleeps in my bed permanently and my husband sleeps in her bed.
I go to bed the same time as her and watch Netflix on my laptop with my earphones in in the dark until its time for me to go to sleep.
My husband watches tv downstairs on his own.
She's almost 8.
I know it sounds ridiculous but it works and it saves all the drama.
Also I know one day she'll grow out of it and want to sleep on her own and ill miss her wee sleepy snuggles. Theyre not little for long.

www.nhs.uk/conditions/night-terrors/

Well you need to be too tired the next day for activities and playing... At 5 she needs to be told firmly adults need slepp too. Hours of screaming is ridiculous.. Your poor neighbours..

If you're not cosleeping with your youngest, id start cosleeping with your eldest for a while. Then build the breaks in. Tell her you'll be going back downstairs but give her some time.

If she's always had separation anxiety and is 5 months into gaining a sibling I'd just go gently and strip it back to basics. Let her regress for a bit.

Ask your GP to refer you to a sleep clinic at the hospital
Alternatively I would spend a few days away with baby , break the cycle . Then do some of the things suggested.
It sounds really hard OP x x

Have a 3 yo and 6 mo.

conslept with our son birth til mid pregnancy when dad took over (taking to guest room to sleep). And he’s never really come back to sleep with me as I co sleep with baby.

toddler sleeps in his own bed and was waking at night for a number of months saying bad dreams. I also noticed some bum scratching so I dewormed which cut the night waking a lot.
he then had a patch of coughing a lot at night (does your daughter?) which is an asthma sign and was waking him 11-12 regularly. Inhaler has fixed that.

do you think this behaviour or could be medical??

Apologies if this comes across brusque, I'm trying to cook late new year's day supper!

She also wakes in the night screaming and thrashing even when I’m in bed with her and it’s been known for her to cry and thrash violently for over an hour and she is utterly inconsolable during this time. Myself and my partner sleep in different rooms as a result

This bit sounds exactly like night terrors. Have a Google.

What are your expectations of her sleep? 7pm is an early bedtime for a five year old! The average five year old sleeps for total of 10-13hrs per day but as little as 8-9hrs can be sufficient for some children. Our five year old sleeps 8:30pm-6:30am, giving a completely average total of 10hrs.

You may find that by offering less sleep in total she is able to consolidate it more and has fewer wake ups. How much sleep does she ACTUALLY do per 24hrs? If it's more than 8hrs, aim for that amount (if she sleeps for an average of 9hrs per day for example then maybe 9pm-6am would suit).

My daughter simply will not fall asleep unless I am in the bed with her. I can’t just be next to her, I can’t be in the room, I need to be physically with her and touching her for her to sleep. My partner (her dad) tries so hard to persist but she will scream for hours until I give in.

Your daughter sounds like a typical high needs/highly sensitive child (we've got one, the younger is much more chilled!). Again have a Google and see if you feel it fits. I sit with the five year old and we listen to the Moshi sleep app until he falls asleep. He is allowed to talk through the first one but not the second go (it's a 15 minute guided meditation story). He is inevitably asleep by the end of the second one.

If recommend the Facebook group The Beyond Sleep Training Project. You could just copy and paste your post from here. Remember that's it not biologically normal for mammals to sleep apart from their young. Modern humans are the only.ones to try it, and even then only is some.places around the world. Cosleeping isn't the weird thing, it's the evolutionary norm.

she sounds like my niece who is 5 she also sounds like she is having night terrors which my niece also has . The crying g and thrashing in the night are likely this
I know it sounds bizarre but re the night terrors try to get them to use the toilet as this apparently calms them down quicker we read this online
Not sure if your daughter is the same but my niece is phenomenally bright and is unable to switch her brain off still doing maths etc as she is laying in bed!! She does not need the same amount of sleep as other children of the same age she can keep going and going we call her the duracell bunny gradually over time her sleep has got marginally better but you still have to hold her hand which she puts next to her cheek before she falls asleep she regularly wakes two three times a night and will often sleep in bed with mummy where she has to be literally.glued to her she does sleep better like that but.... she is 6 soon and it has been a long hard slog re sleep !!

You need to rule out a physical issue, my son has epilepsy and likely ADHD and his sleep has been similar. Thrashing and screaming turned out to be night terrors. You need proper help I think, and I sympathise so much

Yep, also agree with the exceptionally bright, genius level iq my son apparently.

Also I don't know about taking to toilet but waking them gently around 10 mins before an expected night terror bout regularly for a couple fo weeks stopped my son's night terrors and if we get a run of them now we repeat

When did it start @Nomosapien? Could it be linked to jealousy/feeling replaced by the baby?

My dd didn't sleep from being 8 months to 6 years so I have every sympathy I promise!! Hers was in part related to a health issues but even now at 10 she struggles to switch off and fall asleep.

I think some of it is hereditary as I have the same issue. I believe it is classed as a form of insomnia after chatting to my gp.

I find for me and dd that background noise helps. Dd has stories on her echo or cds with stories on repeat. I leave radom documentaries on. It might be worth a try?

There is also a book called the rabbit who wanted to sleep that we used when she was little. Reading it to her ourselves was a disaster but ibooks had an audio version. The way it is read helps put kids in a relaxed almost hypnotic state and helps them sleep.

BTW over this time my sister has tried everything re sleep including various sleep aids star charts reward jars weighted blanket the last is endless and nothing really has worked
From a young age you mustn't let her have even five minutes sleep during the day or it's even later before she goes to sleep now on a good night she will sleep from 8.30 to 6.30 but this has taken years and she often has two or three wake ups in the night sometimes she will go right through but it took her until she was 5 to even do this sometimes I have witnessed how draining it is

On contrast my own daughter who is now grown up went through the night at 12 weeks never had a disturbed night after that even if she was ill or teething
If my niece is even slightly unwell or has scraped her knee during the day or hurt her finger etc etc sleep immediately goes to pot and she wakes crying about it

I think the problem is that she depends on you to fall asleep - sort of a crutch. If she wakes and you’re not there, she can’t get back to sleep by herself. The problem is - as with any crutch - that it becomes less and less effective the longer it’s used; this is why it’s taking her hours to fall asleep.

This scenario is why I’m a huge believer in fixing sleep issues as older babies; older children have a higher level of understanding and autonomy which makes it very difficult. My younger child had the potential to be like this as his personality in some ways is high needs, and he was a horrendous sleeper as a baby. We fixed his sleep with sleep training before he was one and I’m not sure those methods would be effective with a five year old. If I were you, I’d throw money at the problem and hire a sleep consultant. Failing that, cold turkey is probably the only way but I’m doubting you’d be up for that if she’s got to five years old and is still like this. I do think there’s an element of ‘me adult you child’ here that you need to determine, but quite where you go from there I wouldn’t be sure!

I really feel for parents who have a child like my niece sleepiness I have 2 children of my own and rather naively never realised some children could sleep so badly for so long she will be six this year so very bright though I'm bot sure if this isn't part of it

my sister has tried all the sleep methods with my.niece as a baby and a toddler and it simply didn't work only time/age has made it better but still not great at times

It's hard when older children still do not sleep. We ended up using a sleep consultant. Twice. And got melatonin prescribed by the doctor. The sleep consultant helped us with some psychological type of methods which eventually worked. I actually have it typed up on my phone from a previous mumsnet post, so I'll paste it in another reply.

Short term I’d start sleeping with her. When she starts trusting that you’re staying every SINGLE night all night, she’ll fall asleep quicker, enabling you to sneak out and have an evening with your husband.

long term I’d work on getting out. But for now I feel like she’s only 5 and needs you.

my 8yo would like to sleep with me some nights and I do do it, but can’t longterm. I am considering getting her a double bed though so I can every night! We co slept when she was a baby but she still struggles at times now.