Etiquette about electric cars- views??

[AWanderingMinstrel]

First thread, long term user. Just interested in views.
Given that more people are buying electric cars , what do you think will become the correct etiquette for charging when visitors come to your house?
Given that if someone comes to visit me in a petrol car, I don’t pay for their petrol to visit me ( should they need to fill up) what do you think is the right approach if someone arrives in an electric car to your home ( possibly staying overnight) has no more charge , and then charges their car enough to get home using your electricity??
AIBU- to not allow people to charge, you are not responsible for their costs to visit you
AINBU- visitors are coming to see you, their car needs charging, it’s convenient for them to charge during their visit to you, you bear the cost of their travel

Charging at night only costs us about £4 as we have an EV tariff, but daytime would be loads more. I would have no issue with overnight but wouldn't be keen on a full daytime charge

@OddBoots Because it is very expensive to recycle batteries, currently most get shipped to china.
There hasn't been funding to build the facilities needed. It will be decades before the industry catches up. Some one needs to fund it and that will be tax breaks and government grants. That has to be recouped.

It's very complicated to strip batteries, it's not like melting down gold.

I just checked my smart meter readings for last night where I charged up from about 10%. I use a standard 3 pin plug as no dedicated fast charger.

It cost me £4.20 to charge to full. Mine is a very very old Leaf with low range so would only charge at someone else's if I needed the charge to get home.

I don't think there is a cost difference when using a fast charger or a 3 pin plug as it only takes the amount of electricity that the car needs.

@clara778 that is a good point but what do you think of suggestions of EV batteries to be re-purposed as domestic batteries?

I already have a domestic battery and it has been great this year not only for solar use but for shifting our energy use to times when the grid is lower carbon (so when it is windy and not peak use).

EV batteries even from the original Prius hybrid and early Leaf days still have enough useable capacity to work well domestically either solo or stacked.

James from James and Kate YouTube channel, who does mobile servicing has gone from accepting people offering a free charge at their premises to knocking the cost of the charge off the bill.

As he's an all round delightful person with impeccable manners, I'd follow his example and calculate it at 30p per kwh consumed (or 110% of what has been charged as there are charging losses.

@OddBoots I think it's a great way to extend their life. The problem is still going to arise, millions of cars and each year, lots of batteries will retire. It's a ticking time bomb.

There's several companies in America who are attempting to scale up operations to disassemble batteries, but they are heavily funded. Uk has a company that got 3m from government, but it's a drop in the ocean for what will become a huge problem.

It needs to be addressed as the environmental impact creating these batteries is horrific.

I am with British Gas, they only offer a time of use tariff for electric car users, or one other which is reduced rate at certain times on a Sunday.

Also, I've had two failed appointments for a smart meter where I had to take aa day off each time for which I don't get paid. They let me down both times on the day of the appointment. I gave up after that as I can't afford the loss of earnings.

I'm not meaning to be argumentative, just to point out that it isn't always as simple. My tariff suits my needs, and I don't intend to change it for the benefit of the odd visitor who happens to have an electric car. Per my previous post, I only know one, and they live two doors down with their own charge point, so unlikely to ever need to charge at my house.

Well most people won't have charging facilities unless they have an electric car themselves surely - there is no power where ours are parked and you can't trail a lead down the street. There's fast chargers available nearby for guests

We have been an EV family for nearly five years. I don’t think what you are describing will be that much of a “thing” tbh with car ranges these days typically being close to or over 300 Miles. We have lots of family members with EVs and they have never asked to charge at ours.
if hypothetically we stayed somewhere and wanted to use their electricity I would absolutely offer to reimburse (we have done this at airBNBs but not at the houses
or people we know). If someone wanted to use our electricity then I would happily offer. If they used a lot I’d expect them to mention reimbursement but I probably wouldn’t accept it unless it was a lot. Our overnight tariff is super cheap.

Charging facilities == socket. Nothing more fancy than that. But yeah, without a drive and if there isn't "lamp post" chargers, you have to rely on the nearby rapid chargers, much like you would a petrol station.

We have an electric car and when my dad and stepmum come to visit about every 6-8 weeks they do a full charge but they give us money for it. Even though we don't ask for it they insist. Works well for us.

We'd let them charge up regardless but on a regular basis I think it'd be a bit cheeky without at least offering some remuneration.

We actually drive an electric car and love it.
We would and have charged other peoples cars overnight and it cost about £7.00 Maybe that's too much for some folk, but for us it was very doable. Also there are ample charged points all over the country so if you don't want to charge them, send them to a charge point.

Interesting point. But I think people will plan to charge at home or public charge points. I don't think many would expect to top up their car free of charge whenever they visit you - except in emergencies.

I would feel like I was taking the piss expecting someone else to pay for charging my car. Most people would feel they needed to refuse reimbursement too. We stayed at relatives over Christmas but charged in the way then went to services on the way home for lunch and to charge again. I wouldn't expect anyone else to pay for charging my car.

I'd offer 33p per kwh x 2.4kw = 80p an hour.

Let them charge and tell then the cost assuming you have a ev charger with an app that will calculate the cost based on your tariff. It will be cheaper than a public charger so the visitor benefits from the generosity of letting them use the charge over a public one.

@JennyMatrix - why? That’s a very random number. Cost and time taken completely depends on car battery size, and it take a longer to charger 80-100% compared to 20-80%.

our electric costs 0.08cents per kw. And we have a 22kw charger. So it costs €6.16 to fully charge our 77kw car from 0%. And would take 3.5 hrs approx to charge a completely empty car. So 80p an hour would only be around 1/2 the cost.

It would cost you 0.77cents per per kw at nearest motorway charger, costing €59 to fully charge, but that’s a 350kw charger, so would only take 22mins a for a full charge.

So at home you get cheap charge, and it’s easily charged by the time someone came for lunch a few hours. But motorway offers fast convenience if you’re not stopping.

I have just looked on the zap app thingy. There is no pay for charge point accessible to the public within a mile. Which is weird, cos I live in a suburb, outside of that mile are loads of charge points. One is on a street the rest are at supermarkets and gyms. Plenty have "issues reported" which I assume means out of order? I know there are private ones dotted about inside the mile but for company use or personal use.
Also looked at government/local council guidelines and running a cable across paths is not allowed.

Would I let someone charge from a plug socket inside my house, yes. I would not take payment. But someone short of money will be struggling to say no to cash for charging.
I foresee many threads on here worrying about accepting money or not. And cables across streets or not etc.

An interesting question. The answer will possibly change with time, adoption of electric cars and their general range.

We only know 3 other family members with electric cars.
Nephew is unlikely to visit us but if he did I'd offer him a charge. Having one at his is unlikely as no point of his own.
BIL and SIL. We go to theirs more often than they come to us. He always offers us a plug in - fortunate as it's towards the end of our comfortable range. They've plugged in at ours en route North.
Daughter - she always plugs in at ours - she always only seems to have 20 miles or less to go. She's no charger of her own or space - terraced house.

I'm a part time carer for my Mum and plug into hers via 3 pin plug so overnight. Means I can get back home, take her out etc. Her bills are huge, storage heaters, 25+ deg C, plus fan heaters so a fivers worth is a drop in the ocean.

I can't see many others I know needing this. Indeed some friends would rather walk barefoot than even sit in it.

If friends A had an electric car and B had come a distance I'd offer.

@Winnading
”issues reported” doesn’t mean not working. It means someone has reported an issue of some kind at some point recently but it may no longer be relevant eg. Been fixed. It is often that the charger is working slower than it should be. Or that the payment mechanism is being a pain. The comments usually make it clear what’s going on- most will be working.

but you do have a broader point that you cannot sadly assume that the location of a chargepoint will mean a trouble free charge is possible. Unlike the presence of a petrol station which will mean in 99.9% of cases you can get fuel. In the case of a public charge point the chances are probably around 80%, but you may need to wait.

This reminded me of something......

The quote, rating etc is using a mains socket charger, very slow ie overnight in a smaller capacity car. (sometimes called a Granny Charger) A day+ for a bigger batteried car that is nearly flat.

2.4 Kw is fine out of a socket. It's what a kettle uses, less than a 3 bar radiator. It's 10 amps. But for a prolonged period......

If the plug and/or socket is dirty it can get very hot. Ours has overheated an external socket to the point of it needing to be replaced. Keep your plug clean, quiet WD40 into the socket and pull the plug in and out a few times.

I'd be more worried about the security risk of having to trail a plug out of the window, since we don't have an outdoor one, than the cost. I'd also worry it might short if it rained. I think I'd say they could charge during the day but not overnight. I wouldn't ask for costs as a one off but I would for any frequent visitors. No one I know on visiting terms has an EV though.

Exactly, it can vary massively. My car has an 84 KwH battery. If I charge at home overnight a full charge will cost less than £10. But during the day at home that’d be nearer £25. At a the cheapest slow public charger nearby it’d be just over £30, and at at a fast charger on the motorway a full charge would be over £60. I use fast chargers maybe once every few months - the rest is done at home / destinations, so I don’t worry about the fast charger cost as it’s so infrequent.

I guess that raises interesting questions about assumptions made.

So I’m assuming yours is an EX90 with a 110kwh battery. 119kwh at 28p per kWh would be about £30 for a full charge, as you say. But that assumes you’re charging on a standard capped tariff.

However you also say “on a home charger”. I don’t know anyone with a home charger who doesn’t have an overnight or smart tariff. For example ours is about 7p per kWh regardless of what time of day it is charged, so long as it is done as a ‘smart charge”. So if you were charging the EX90 from empty to full at ours it would be £7.70. My car is 77kwh so a full charge is £5.40. And of course normally I am topping up from 20% to 80%, so about £3.

I have done 1000 miles his month and it has cost £32 in total.

I just thought it might be useful to see the difference, for those asking why it varies so wildly. And what that might mean for the etiquette of charging because it could cost a lot more on different tariffs, and for different battery capacities.

Someone topping up a Leaf just enough to get them home might be a very different prospect to a full charge on a 110 kwh battery.

Because it takes far longer to charge than to fill a tank with petrol.