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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to think a diverse staff force in a Nursery is an asset, not a drop in quality?

276 replies

WhataPlank · 28/12/2023 11:56

I own a small, rural nursery school.
We, like every other nursery in the UK, really struggle with staffing but have recently secured three wonderful Practitioners to join our small team.
All are very experienced, very caring, speak perfect English and are completely qualified; one from Kenya, one from India and one from Romania.

The most important thing for me is having well trained staff who genuinely love and care for the children and ensure their learning and development is on track. On top of that, I think having such a diverse workforce is a massive asset particularly in an area where the children wouldn't necessarily get much exposure to different cultures. We already did regular diversity events (such as a Holi, Ramadan, St Patricks, Divali etc) and the new staff will all host their own Nursery activities to celebrate their cultures.

But I've heard several complaints (two directly to me as the owner, and many more "gossip/rumours") that our nursery has "cheapened" and "been taken over" and is generally being viewed as lower quality due to the staff not all being British. Some people have expressed concerns that their training would not meet the requirements of the EYFS and that the children's education will be of lower quality. It has been implied that the staff's native qualifications are not comparable to British ones.

AIBU to think this is simply pure racism and that staff diversity should be viewed as a massive asset to our community/children?

(In case it needs mentioning, I've gone out of my way to ensure the staff feel welcome and comfortable with their relocation.)

OP posts:
ScremeEggs · 28/12/2023 16:36

I would love to hear what exactly would put you off?
Seeing as that poster has said it's woke and doesn't want it (want what? hasn't specified) around their children I think that speaks volumes what's putting them off.

Gummybear23 · 28/12/2023 16:39

ScremeEggs · 28/12/2023 16:36

I would love to hear what exactly would put you off?
Seeing as that poster has said it's woke and doesn't want it (want what? hasn't specified) around their children I think that speaks volumes what's putting them off.

Those children could easily grow up rebel against the parents who fear diversity.

Longma · 28/12/2023 16:39

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines. at the request of it's author.

WhataPlank · 28/12/2023 16:39

I could defend myself as an employer until I'm blue in the face but I'm afraid people are just going to have to trust that I do indeed pay what I say I do, treat the staff well and have realistic expectations. The expectations of nursery staff in general (from both a regulatory and parental expectation) are extremely high and it will have contributed to the present childcare crisis.

The culture in this community is very laid back, slow-living style, and there are few industries as heavily regulated as ours. The locals that left did so because of the paperwork obligations alongside the pressures of studying - neither of which I had any control over.

OP posts:
Longma · 28/12/2023 16:40

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines. at the request of it's author.

sunglassesonthetable · 28/12/2023 16:41

No, you’re doing it to be woke and I won’t have it anywhere near my children.

Pathetic

psspsspssmrrowww · 28/12/2023 16:45

sunglassesonthetable · 28/12/2023 16:33

Ok, so what is your issue now?

Wondering why you think you know better than the OP about opening a nursery. So what's yours?

Where did I say that? Not sure why you're being so combative, but apply a bit of brain.
OP barely makes any money. Presumably because she pays staff well and keeps prices low but is unappreciated by parents.
Around here (suburbs) that would never happen. Parents desperately need childcare to work, forget questions about staff qualifications if the nursery was affordable she'd have kids being thrown at her like flies. In fact many nurseries are closing down because they can't make ends meet. OP is subsiding it herself and going to apply for grants/sponsorship etc.

If people are picking at all the OP does. Maybe they see this nursery as some expensive extra enrichment activity that they pay through the nose for. And not something actually necessary.

OP has mentioned 'rural' presumably for a reason. To explain why she thinks complains are purely racism and in relation to diversity. Yet, you got angry when I did the same thing, used 'rural' to perhaps deduce why people are not falling over themselves to thank OP for providing this desperately needed service for them.

Either way logically if people don't appreciate what they have then they don't deserve to have it. Serves them right to be barred from the nursery. Even then, nobody has actually said things directly to the OP. For all you know, the gossipers are people who don't even have nursery aged children and just don't like the OP and her business. Nothing to do with any of the staff.

Flatulence · 28/12/2023 16:45

Assuming their English is as good as you state and they have appropriate training/qualifications then yes, it sounds like people are being racist.
I frankly don't give a damn where people caring for my kids come from or what they look like so long as they can communicate effectively, uphold the values/standards of the setting I have chosen, are caring and respectful, and hold and maintain the right training and qualifications. Whether they're from Kent or Kenya is immaterial.

PonyPatter44 · 28/12/2023 16:46

psspsspssmrrowww · 28/12/2023 16:06

@WhataPlank I am wondering why you decided to jump headfirst into opening a nursery instead of first being a childminder. The latter is usually cheaper. People expect more structured activities from a nursery, education, qualifications etc etc although childminders do have to be qualified too people just expect more from nursery.

Do you have a large enough population of young working families than nursery is truly 'desperately needed'? I find that hard to believe in a rural area which is mostly farmland. You need new babies constantly being born/people moving out to be replaced by families with small children.

Edited

Are you actually on glue? Maybe she didn't want to be a childminder, but had decent experience and business acumen, and spotted a gap in the market in her area.

For someone who is confident that they weren't just hired to meet a diversity quota, you seem to have a shaky grasp of business!

psspsspssmrrowww · 28/12/2023 16:47

PonyPatter44 · 28/12/2023 16:46

Are you actually on glue? Maybe she didn't want to be a childminder, but had decent experience and business acumen, and spotted a gap in the market in her area.

For someone who is confident that they weren't just hired to meet a diversity quota, you seem to have a shaky grasp of business!

See my latest post

WillowCraft · 28/12/2023 16:48

psspsspssmrrowww · 28/12/2023 15:03

@ScremeEggs But we're not discussing the labour market here, we're discussing 'diversity' with respect to employees' ability to provide the service. Which is unrelated to their skin colour.
The 'assumptions' that people make, individual progression etc etc isn't the point here.
Of course, I am not saying the people are not racist. They could be. But the reasons provided to OP are valid. Why jump to racism.

@AlbatrosStrike Because as a PP pointed out, it's not that difficult to become a nursery worker. In fact many are qualifying, then leaving because the rates of pay aren't worth it. If OP is paying that well I find it hard to believe she can't recruit people trained in the UK.
Note my careful choice of working here. Trained in the UK.
Whether they were born in Kenya, are green, purple or whatever doesn't matter. nationality isn't a protected characteristic blah race is.

Thinking about it though the OP hasn't stated how she has recruited. Are they on sponsored visas directly from their countries of origin? Or do they have the right to work in the UK but simply have their qualifications from those countries?

If OP has had to go through the process of checking etc it sounds more like the former.

@WillowCraft nursery workers come under healthcare and education jobs so can be paid less
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/skilled-worker-visa-eligible-healthcare-and-education-jobs/skilled-worker-visa-eligible-healthcare-and-education-jobs

Only if they are teaching in Gaelic which seems unlikely...

VimtoVimto · 28/12/2023 16:48

ReindeerShelter · 28/12/2023 16:23

We implement a diverse cultural curriculum because it is fun, educational and we aim to broaden children's experiences as well as promote inclusion.

No, you’re doing it to be woke and I won’t have it anywhere near my children.

I would think your children are amongst those who would benefit most from a diverse cultural curriculum.

quietlyplease · 28/12/2023 16:48

ReindeerShelter · 28/12/2023 16:23

We implement a diverse cultural curriculum because it is fun, educational and we aim to broaden children's experiences as well as promote inclusion.

No, you’re doing it to be woke and I won’t have it anywhere near my children.

You throw "woke" around like it's an insult.

I want my kids to learn what their friends at nursery and school celebrate and believe. If that makes me woke so be it.

quietlyplease · 28/12/2023 16:50

From Wikipedia:

Woke is an adjective derived from African-American Vernacular English (AAVE) meaning "alert to racial prejudice and discrimination".[1][2] Beginning in the 2010s, it came to encompass a broader awareness of social inequalities such as racial injustice, sexism, and denial of LGBT rights

Adjective - Wikipedia

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adjective

ScremeEggs · 28/12/2023 16:50

I know I'm coming back to it but I honestly do not get this mindset.

No, you’re doing it to be woke and I won’t have it anywhere near my children.
which was in response to this from the OP

We implement a diverse cultural curriculum because it is fun, educational and we aim to broaden children's experiences as well as promote inclusion
How can you not want your children to learn about other cultures as well as their own?
Do you want them to grow up in ignorance to though no fault of their own?
Surely it makes a more rounded individual?
I grew up in one of these white, rural areas
Moved to a big city in my early 20s, it does you good to have a diverse view and meet a range of cultures/people.

quietlyplease · 28/12/2023 16:52

ScremeEggs · 28/12/2023 16:50

I know I'm coming back to it but I honestly do not get this mindset.

No, you’re doing it to be woke and I won’t have it anywhere near my children.
which was in response to this from the OP

We implement a diverse cultural curriculum because it is fun, educational and we aim to broaden children's experiences as well as promote inclusion
How can you not want your children to learn about other cultures as well as their own?
Do you want them to grow up in ignorance to though no fault of their own?
Surely it makes a more rounded individual?
I grew up in one of these white, rural areas
Moved to a big city in my early 20s, it does you good to have a diverse view and meet a range of cultures/people.

They want to isolate themselves in a little bubble with no outside influence of any kind but haven't realised their bubble is slowly changing too as the world changes. It's quite sad really, to think your own culture is so superior.

fixies · 28/12/2023 16:52

It's racism. My kids have carers from all over the world. They have learnt a lot about other cultures and received excellent care.

PonyPatter44 · 28/12/2023 16:53

I think its fairly obvious that the locals have discovered this thread (as well as Mumsnet's homegrown thick as a brick racist contingent)....!

Thistoo2023 · 28/12/2023 16:56

Elfoutthewindow · 28/12/2023 14:00

No, I think the comment that rural cultures don't matter, and therefore we can look down on them is.

Good luck with your business OP. I'm sure you're right, and you can blame the horrible racists of rural communities. I'm sure everyone is right and there could be nothing else at play here, just those horrible racist country folk that you're so much better than.

Thick as mince 😆

sunglassesonthetable · 28/12/2023 16:57

If people are picking at all the OP does.

Where does it say this?

to perhaps deduce why people are not falling over themselves to thank OP for providing this desperately needed service for them.

Where is this even implied or mentioned

OP says she wouldn't give it up because she'd let so many people down.

Serves them right to be barred from the nursery.

no one's been barred

Maybe it's the way you write but your post questioning the OP's nursery being 'desperately needed' sounds beyond know all given you really know very about the situation.

Neitheronethingnortheother · 28/12/2023 16:58

quietlyplease · 28/12/2023 16:52

They want to isolate themselves in a little bubble with no outside influence of any kind but haven't realised their bubble is slowly changing too as the world changes. It's quite sad really, to think your own culture is so superior.

Never mind the fact that we have had Muslim people in the UK since the 16th century and the first mosque was built in the 1860s

So people moaning about not teaching birtish values, and not respecting british culture etc are blindly ignoring the fact that by now Ramadan is a smallish but long standing part of British culture

psspsspssmrrowww · 28/12/2023 17:02

sunglassesonthetable · 28/12/2023 16:57

If people are picking at all the OP does.

Where does it say this?

to perhaps deduce why people are not falling over themselves to thank OP for providing this desperately needed service for them.

Where is this even implied or mentioned

OP says she wouldn't give it up because she'd let so many people down.

Serves them right to be barred from the nursery.

no one's been barred

Maybe it's the way you write but your post questioning the OP's nursery being 'desperately needed' sounds beyond know all given you really know very about the situation.

This is Mumsnet, nobody really knows anything they just comment based on their experiences. I'm not a childcare expert but have used it in many different places across the country. Anyway, you're the one deliberately being obtuse. OP has said 'several complaints' in the OP, mentioned she's underappreciated in later posts etc etc. Of course she doesn't want to let people down but at the same time looks like people aren't aware of how good they have it.
Anyway, OP, for whom the thread is for has responded politely to my posts and said the thread has given her useful advice such as putting staff bios. Well done OP!
You haven't really done anything to help her except for have a go at me. Not sure what that achieves. If you're really bored , idk maybe go read a book , fix your garage, make yourself you know actually useful. I don't owe you any explanations and won't be replying to any more of your posts.

Torganer · 28/12/2023 17:03

What’s woke about employing qualified nursery staff?!!!

Learning about other cultures/religion is part of the curriculum. I learnt about other cultures and religions and I went to an all white British school with all white British teachers.

my child goes to a nursery where the staff are predominately not from Britain and the children are predominately British but not all white. The staff are qualified, caring and the activities they do are amazing, well planned and thoughtful. They run in every morning with barely a goodbye! We also get updates and photos each day and comprehensive feedback from the amazing staff.

WillowCraft · 28/12/2023 17:05

After the updates OP it sounds like a great nursery. White areas do tend to be racist but it's usually down to ignorance or lack of confidence rather than anything deep rooted. Plus the concerns about pay, qualifications, cultural differences etc are valid. I think education of parents will help and once the parents have got to know the staff it will win them over. It will be worth doing some role play with staff to ensure parent interactions are as good as they can be. Staff will be judged on that few second handover more than their whole day's work

Daisymae55 · 28/12/2023 17:10

My little girl is mixed race and at nursery, so from my perspective, as long as they were good at the job, the diversity would be a big plus to me.

The main thing that matters with nursery staff to me is if they can take good care of my little girl and form a bond with them. I couldn’t care less where they are from, especially if experienced.