AIBU to be angry at A&E?

[fashu]

I'm currently in hospital A&E, I've been here for 9 and a half hours. I'm 35 weeks pregnant. AIBU for getting upset or should I just suck it up?

At 8pm last night I had the oncoming of a migraine, funny vision, light-headedness etc.
I went to tell my husband and called the midwife, then started having a chat with DH. Mid conversation I started talking nonsense. Instead of car I was was saying mayonnaise, on top of other things I was just talking crap.
I tried to Google the symptoms and I couldn't type either. I couldn't think of what I wanted to write, although I knew what I was doing and when I did think of the words it looked like this 'hdhcjsk'

I panicked a bit and went back to my husband and then I went completely numb on in my hands and my mouth. I panicked and told him to call an ambulance. Ambulance came just over an hour later and said I needed to go to hospital as it sounds like a mini stroke.
Queue major panic mode!

Paramedics called maternity unit they said its not for them but keep them updated.

So I arrived in an ambulance at A&E just after 12am. Went to majors and the triage said to wait in waiting room and they will tell senior doctors.

Well I'm still waiting. 35 weeks pregnant on a hard metal chair. For 9 and a half hours. Panicking that I've had a mini stroke.

I've told the reception and nurses several times that my belly is now hurting from sitting for so long and being awake for 26 hours. I asked for water and they said I had to use the vending machine for a can of coke.
Receptionist told me I'm not poorly enough for a bed or the arm chairs.

I'm so upset, emotional and scared. DH has dropped kids off at my mums now as they were asleep and didn't want to disturb them in the night.

But, am I right to be upset or is this just how it is? Surely a pregnant woman with suspected mini stroke should be left for this long alone without treatment?

OP, that sounds horrible and it’s scary not knowing what is happening. But I take issue with people saying that the staff don’t care. I’m sure they do care or they wouldn’t be there, but they have to do the best with what they have.

None of us know how many times staff have asked for there to be a water fountain and got a no or no response from management. If people seem not to care it’s likely to be because they are beyond busy, although this can’t be necessarily seen, or sometimes it’s the ones who really really care who burn out because they are really trying to give everyone great treatment and it’s impossible.

. So I’m really sorry when it isn’t anywhere near as good as I’m sure the staff would like it to be, but the the staff on duty are not the ones who made the decisions that make your experience how it is, so please get angry with the managers or the system or the level of taxes we pay with an aging population, but please try not to get angry with individual staff lightly.
Good luck to you and your baby!
(NHS clinician)

I was going to say hemiplegic migraine too. My DS had his first at age 9 and then had them at least monthly for the next ten years. Terrifying symptoms but no neurological damage.

I understand emergencies are prioritised. I’m not sure that 9 hours at 35 weeks pregnant with a suspected stroke or clot - sat in a waiting room with no care or physical support is appropriate. And I’m not sure what your son’s crisis treatment has to do with that.

there should be an expectation for her to be seen and thoroughly assessed within a reasonable timeframe.

we are losing decency in our nhs.

We need a solution. What can we do?

The vast majority of the people in the UK are all in the same boat on this issue - it is one issue that unifies us.

We are nearly all average people who will doubtless need to use the NHS routinely or in emergency throughout our lives.

If working conditions for NHS contract staff have become untenable then that is a serious issue too as the NHS is a major employer and should be held to account for working conditions and staff morale.

Everyone I know who can afford to has long since taken private healthcare now. That's the minority of people in my world, as most people I know are not at all well off and don't have fancy employment packages but good luck to those who do.

Also everyone I know who used to work for the NHS has now left to do other careers or work in the private sector. They left because they were chronically unhappy and becoming distressed to the point of it being a mental health crisis. Two people I know are training to be nurses and have been put in work placements on wards already despite they only started training in Sept, not sure what they do but they report being overwhelmed.

Just my opinion but I don't think 14 hour days are healthy work practice at all and should be the rare exception not the norm.

Sounds like the NHS. At least if you do collapse or something then someone might notice. If they haven't got a bed or a doctor I guess they just haven't. Does suck though. Worse than lots of countries - but equally better than many more countries. It's one of those 'it is what it is' situations.

I will say that I have sat with dd for 9.5 hours at a quite empty A&E

But last month I ended up in an A&E dept in a different town where I could see about 60-70 people on chairs, floors etc I limped in expecting at least a 10 hour wait.
I saw the receptionist who took my details (name address, doctors surgery etc) Then I was directed to a nurse sat behind a desk who took details of what has happened. Immediately was given a wheel chair and a porter who took me to X-ray, gave me a number and I waited there for my X Ray. Was then wheeled back to the waiting room area and waited there watching them plough through the people who were ahead of me in the queue. There seemed to be operating a system where people like me who knew what was wrong and weren’t in a life threatening state were seen by one section, people who didn’t know what was wrong were seen by another team and those who were probably going to be admitted were seen by another team. There was what looked like the doctor in charge who was making sure everyone was seen and was floating between all departments and when my name was called by a doctor he actually came out to call my name and wheeled me into the room to quicken everything up. I was shown my Xrays and told nothing broken but would be sore and off work for a month. I was out of there and back in a taxi in just over an hour.
Literally there wasn’t a minute that went by when I was waiting where someone didn’t come out and call someone’s name
There was still a busy room when I left but the people were new people who arrived after me

Couldn't believe how quickly I got through.
Nor could I believe the amount of doctors who were doubling up as porters and nurses if one wasn’t available just to stop patients hanging around waiting

First time ever I felt that from beginning to end I had been listened to and my issue treated

Personally I would be looking at making your way to the maternity unit if it is part of the same hospital and asking for them to check for pre eclampsia/high blood pressure

Some staff do need to improve their self-awareness and take some personal and professional responsibility to reflect on their obvious compassion fatigue, cognitive biases and stress levels and do something about it though. It’s not good enough to just shrug and say working conditions are terrible and I can’t help that I’m taking it out on you patient number 17. Yes, working conditions ARE terrible, but that’s not the fault of most of the patients coming through.

You have focused an awful lot on ‘facts’ here but neglected to acknowledge that just being a bit kinder to a patient can make a difference too. Getting someone a drink of water, kindly acknowledging the wait time and offering a bit of sympathy, trying to make them even slightly more comfortable etc doesn’t take much. Compassion fatigue is becoming a very real problem in these environments and it really doesn’t help. The government and management should be getting on top of it and putting strategies in place to mitigate, but HCP’s also need to take some responsibility and be a bit more accountable too.

You ask what can you do about it? Individual’s cannot fix the system but they can be present in the moment and take one shift at a time to treat their patients with a bit more kindness. Reflect and work out self-management and personal strategies to help mitigate your compassion fatigue and cognitive biases. Take some annual leave….get some counselling….focus on your own well being…..take the blinkers off. Don’t just throw your hands up and say well this is how it is now, you should be grateful to even be seen.

I really feel for you OP but glad you’re finally getting the help you need. Hope you get some sleep too.

Earlier this month, I had a suspected pulmonary embolism (turned out to be pneumonia). I had abnormal vitals and was left on a chair for 9 hours. I was told to drink water as my bloods were abnormal. I had forgotten my purse but luckily the vending machine accepted Apple Pay. Eventually I felt so unwell, I told the receptionist who got a nurse and they moved into action very quickly. I was so so anxious about asking for help and pushing in front of others. It is hard being assertive when you feel like crap.

I felt so much better on a drip and a comfier chair in minors. The staff weren’t rude or lazy. The department was heaving. They were working hard but system is at breaking point, if not already broken.

I wonder if the second A and E that you went to was attached to a minor injury unit and a GP.

"No staff don't think it's acceptable
Staff are going home distressed after shifts, crying in corridors, suffering moral injury because of it, no one thinks it's ok, but I ask you, what can we do?"
@widowtwankywashroom I'm guessing this is what you're experiencing as you come across quite angry but also resigned by your last comment.

What would make a difference do you think? How could A&E be improved so patients, who are at their most vulnerable, in pain and distressed, be best supported?

Personally I would be looking at making your way to the maternity unit if it is part of the same hospital and asking for them to check for pre eclampsia/high blood pressure

They've done that and ruled it out. OP has been admitted with a possible CVT, it would be madness to go wandering off around the hospital.

Pregnant or not any suggestion of a clot or bleeding needs urgent investigation and to be taken in by ambulance and sat in majors for hours is a disgrace, the NHS is being run into the ground.

Maybe I am bitter and angry today
I've done 4 long day's out of the last 5 days, I'm on a 2ww myself after my GP found a lump and being verbally abused yesterday by a patient who wanted me to bnd the rules to suit her.

With regards to what the solution is.
It's easy to say more money but as a society we need to change.
We sit there many a day and look at why people are in hospital, period pains, hangover, anxiety, come down from drugs, there is a whole society of people who want things now.

I'm glad you're being seen op.

I had an almost identical episode to yours when I was pregnant with dc1. I was at work and suddenly felt a bit odd. I had blind spots in my vision and felt a bit lightheaded and dizzy. I was speaking to a colleague at the time and realised they were looking at me strangely...then I realised the words coming out of my mouth were nonsense. I work in finance and was going through accounts...I was using related but incorrect words like 'level' for balance and 'money card' instead of credit card. I tried to write something down and just couldn't formulate the words. Then my arm and toes went numb.

I freaked out, called dh and he took me to A&E. I was convinced I was having a stroke, it was terrifying. I had a battery of tests, including ECG and MRI and all was clear. It was explained to me that I'd had an incomplete fainting episode, probably due to a spike or dip in blood pressure or dehydration with pregnancy the underlying cause...that my body was trying to faint but wouldn't so you get to experience all the things your body would have experienced whilst you were unconscious and unaware. Fainting would have been far less scary!

Just wanted to tell you my experience and hoping yours is similar and nothing to worry about.

Its valid and its fair to say there can be, and are, issues with staff attitude (in addition to the issues you've cited).

If staff view their role as a vocation, and not just a job, fetching someone a drink of water would be done without thought; even if you have to ask the person to wait a few minutes.

And the on duty staff DO make decisions, attributing everything to management is disingenuous at best (and an absolute cop out at worst). You're imploring people to 'blame' management and not staff, by the same token people arriving at A&E shouldnt be made to feel 'blame' for their very presence, and requirement of basic care (such as hydration!). Telling a frightened, heavily pregnant, unwell woman "If you're thirsty, go to the vending machine" is the antithesis of a caring ethos, and its regrettably an all too common, dismissive, attitude displayed by staff.

I’ve had strokes…..I was met very quickly by the stroke team….

Even just the water issue is getting me down. I was on a ward for 5 days, four of which I was pinned to my bed unable to mobilise.

It is degrading having to beg for water. It is horrific for a nurse to wander off with your water jug and not come back.

Jeez why don't they just pay someone to walk around wards filling water jugs and free up the nurses time? Or put bottled water?

Why not have hospital volunteers who can help patients? I had to rely on limited assistance from friends and I noticed everyone else was getting help from huge numbers of family members coming and going 24/7, lucky for them to have big families whereas I'm single and alone, it made me feel really vulnerable.

So many senseless wastes of time in the NHS. Examples - I wasn't given my 'nurse' buzzer for the first 36 hours so thought I had to call out to random passing nurses. I wasn't given my bed adjusting remote control for the first THREE DAYS and thought I had to buzz a nurse to get my bed adjusted - they were doing it from a control panel clipped on to the foot rail of my bed that I couldn't reach. I said to them why can you not just unclip it and give me the control panel so I don't have to buzz you. They passed me my very own remote control from underneath the bed below near my head. WTAF?!?

As a nurse with 25 years experience I was ashamed when colleagues started telling me I spoilt patients by making them a drink and biscuits in the night or out of meal times when they asked, were frightened, in pain, couldn't sleep. I got sick of hearing patients they have to wait, didn't really need a drink, extra blanket etc etc. It was not what I trained for to see people ignored. Attitudes by some have changed .

You've been triaged and clearly deemed to be low priority. Ambulance will have taken vitals and also on arrival. I'm always quite shocked at how people think these things work. Just because you arrive in an ambulance does not mean you're seen quicker.

Personally I wouldn't have gone to A+E, I would have rung maternity direct and insisted to be seen,. They'd have seen you almost immediately (well, going off the experience I had whilst pregnant)

I'm saying this as someone whose just spent 39 hours in A+E with a life threatening issue....genuinely life threatening, but because I hadn't actually flatlined, I was still in a queue so to speak. I didn't mind because i was a mess - couldn't have been on mumsnet if I'd tried. I was in the best place IF I flatlined. That's the point.

Those people posting saying they were seen super quickly when a suspected mini stroke clearly obviously had concerning vitals - low oxygen levels, irregular heartbeat, stupidly high blood pressure etc etc. If all the vitals are absolutely fine, then you're not about to drop dead and you can wait. It's as simplistic as this when there's a queue sadly.

I do agree there's almost a lack of care though - but I would imagine you would become almost immune to it all if you're seeing it day in day out. Not saying that's right, but that's how it is sadly. Personally given the vitals are all fine, I would have discharged myself and gone to the Drs in the morning and they can send you straight to SDEC if they feel it's urgent.

I've only read the first three pages but I do get annoyed at posters who will seemingly excuse anything NHS staff do or don't do because overworked and under pressure.
It is not acceptable to refuse a drink of water or shrug when asked for a nappy and there is no other profession where this would be acceptable, regardless of how busy they are.
I have told the story a few times now about my dad being in a&e for a routine blood transfusion from 10am until 10.30pm because the receptionist was 'too busy' to call anyone to take him home after his treatment at 11.30. We were not allowed to stay with him and the staff could not tell us when the transfusion would take place. The receptionist told me at 10am that she would be too busy to call me, regardless of what time the call was needed. My mum called a&e every 30 mins from 11am onwards and the phone was not answered. Eventually I called the main switchboard and found he had been admitted. My parents are both late 80s.
I thought this was disgusting and would not be justified in any other setup apart from the NHS, when any criticism is seen as 'NHS bashing' and some staff (in my case the receptionist) feel empowered to basically refuse to do a part if their job because 'too busy'

I would guess many people are there because they can't get access to a GP and they want help because they are scared?

I'm sorry to hear you have a 2ww - I've been there and I remember the feeling of worry and finding it hard to focus on my work. I'm hoping you'll get a clear result. Have you got any RL support? Do NHS staff have access to support in regards to mental health/counselling etc?

@fashu - I completely understand you feeling annoyed about your situation, but it isn't the fault of the staff in A & E. The NHS is broken. Not just under pressure, but completely broken. Complain to your MP about it, by all means, but the staff on the ground are trying to do the impossible

My Son-in Law had a similar experience in his local hospital on 6/7th December. Went to his GP day before his 47th Birthday. GP called an ambulance and sent him to A & E as his Blood Pressure was through the roof and he had some numbness and pins and needles down some of his right side. They gave him tablets for his blood pressure and sent him home. Blood Pressure reading 254/120 ( anything over 180 is very dangerous). Told to come back if symptoms got worse. Went back to A & E the next day as numbness worse. Sat for nearly 4 hours before they triaged him, then said they needed to keep him in as BP still in the 200's ( top line). He then had to sit until almost midnight, having gone up around 12pm, on a hard chair as they had no beds. Another Gentleman who had definitely had a stroke ( they still weren't sure about my SIL) had to sit beside him.

SIL got discharged next day, even although his BP was still far too high. Saw the stroke consultant who confirmed he HAD had a minor stroke ( a Lacunar) and was scheduled to see someone three days later for tests. However, his BP Monitor still showed very high BP readings the following day ( Saturday). A & E refused to do anything more, because he had seen the consultant, medication had been prescribed, they didn't want to change the dosage without his say so and there was no stroke consultant available anywhere in the hospital.

Scary, but true. It is the system that is broken and the staff are trying their very best to deal with things in order of priorities, but they don't like not being able to treat people they would like to - and THAT is down to the politicians

I hope all is well with you and your baby

Agree. The thought of needing A&E scared me even before reading some of these stories (visible broken arm?!!! 😨) but now it genuinely terrifies me. For me and my loved ones.

I genuinely don't think there is a good solution, solutions but not good ones.

Those of us who aren't rich are all fucked. People are dying because of the state of the NHS that would have lived if it was fit for function. We probably all know of examples

My ideas for solutions are not politically correct so I would probably get a MN ban for even suggesting them.

@LittleMissSunshiner . Quoting you here.....But anyone who thinks nurses are ran off their feet little angels obviously hasn't been in hospital for a long time - they're clearly extremely unhappy with serious 'control' issues and taking their hate and sadism out on patients. They're also not the sharpest tools in the box and I query how they ever passed sufficient exams to be doing the job in the first place (or maybe they haven't?).

How rude are you? Not generalising in any way are you?