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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think Gone With the Wind really isn't a romantic film?

185 replies

FestiveFruitloop · 27/12/2023 13:10

Just finished watching it, hadn't ever seen it all the way through before. Toxic/abusive relationships, marital rape depicted positively (WTF??), racism and misogyny, manipulative characters... all I can say is I hope it's no longer considered romantic in this day and age. AIBU?

OP posts:
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FuzzyPuffling · 27/12/2023 14:05

And don't forget, marital rape was legal in the UK until 1991.

DNAexpert · 27/12/2023 14:05

Just reread my message, I want to edit it but am on the app. I meant to say that I was shocked by its depiction that martial rape was a good thing.

Maireas · 27/12/2023 14:06

I think people are very aware of history, the American Civil War and the issue of slave owning states. Conflating it with a romantic melodrama is I suspect what people have an issue with.

Smugandproud · 27/12/2023 14:07

HappyBusman · 27/12/2023 13:38

Do we get brownie points for not owning slaves and riding off to fight a war in the glorious cause of being allowed to own, buy and sell human beings, though? Hmm

Show quote history

You should be very proud of Lancashire Mill workers who supported the fight against slavery refusing to touch raw cotton picked by slaves even though it meant they had little work and therefore no wages to support their families.

JanewaysBun · 27/12/2023 14:10

I think it's fascinating. Scarlett isn't pleasant, she uses people gor her own ends, but is someone who will always come out fighting. She's not sympathetic and i think that. And Hattie McDaniel is phenomenal in the film.

I'm sure I read somewhere that Margaret Mitchell based the idea of moments in her childhood where her grandmother would drive her round the old burned out mansions of Atlanta and explain that this is what happens when you think your world will stay still and you don't adapt to thr changing world. Iirc the book is quite heavy on that theme, it's Scarlett who moves with the times whilst so many just watch as the world they know collapses.

It's only really Gable who makes it seem "romantic" because he was so charasmatic.

TyotyaKlava · 27/12/2023 14:11

You can’t think of this in modern terms. The book was written /movie filmed in the last century, about the events that happened even earlier. It is about the past events and the reality that it all happened, and it was the norm back then. You can criticize it but it wouldn’t be fair comparison to the current norms.

JanewaysBun · 27/12/2023 14:12

It's also interesting that (melanie and the dead mum excluded) there's no "good guy" white characters, they're all different levels of flawed, self centered beings.

Maireas · 27/12/2023 14:14

Scarlett saw poverty and vowed never to be poor or hungry again. It was unusual to have a young woman with that mindset at the heart of a film.
I agree that it's all very pro Confederacy, but you have to see it within that context, not excuse or overlook it.

zigzag716746zigzag · 27/12/2023 14:14

Maireas · 27/12/2023 14:06

I think people are very aware of history, the American Civil War and the issue of slave owning states. Conflating it with a romantic melodrama is I suspect what people have an issue with.

But how do you get “romantic melodrama” from Gone With the Wind? It never was a romantic melodrama. What bits of it do you think are romantic?

It is and always has been, both as a novel and as a film, a harrowing depiction of a time of huge upheaval in history and how that affects a central (but not hugely likeable) character.

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FestiveFruitloop · 27/12/2023 14:15

stemmedroses · 27/12/2023 14:05

the Ku Klux Klan effectively being heroes are pretty jarring

But that was the case in the South during the Civil War. The Southern States wanting to maintain slavery was one of the reasons for the war.

It's so ridiculous that people don't want to see/hear the unsavoury parts of history.

I suspect it's more that people don't want to see/hear it being normalised...

OP posts:
Maireas · 27/12/2023 14:16

Nope. I never said it was a romantic melodrama, other folks have depicted it as such. (Hence the word conflating)
I know exactly what it's about, @zigzag716746zigzag

Goingtothinkofone · 27/12/2023 14:17

it’s not a romantic film or intended to be.

It is a great film and the fact our moral codes have changed since then doesn’t change that. We don’t need to agree with what it’s saying to appreciate the storytelling.

I personally really appreciate Scarlett as a total anti-heroine. She’s unashamedly a massive witch to most people around her. She’s so complex and unsympathetic which even now where so many female characters are just one dimensionally nice / mothers / eye candy is refreshing.

Char65 · 27/12/2023 14:20

I love it! Its one of my favourite films of all time! I love old films generally and GWTW is right at the top of my list. I know there are elements which are not PC but as others have said it is a film about resilience and who could not argue that Scarlett O'Hara is not a strong female character?

PS I agree that Margaret Mitchell's book is far better, very long but worth it.

Char65 · 27/12/2023 14:21

Maireas · 27/12/2023 14:14

Scarlett saw poverty and vowed never to be poor or hungry again. It was unusual to have a young woman with that mindset at the heart of a film.
I agree that it's all very pro Confederacy, but you have to see it within that context, not excuse or overlook it.

Yes exactly this, well put.

GreatGateauxsby · 27/12/2023 14:22

heartofglass23 · 27/12/2023 13:34

Most women would be better off with a Rhett than the porn addled incel men of today.

We are in no way superior enough to be looking down our noses at that culture.

I agree with this actually.
Also Clark gable despite being an arsehole and drunk driver murderer! IRL has so much charm and charisma in this movie it's just unreal...

Hattie McDaniel is also just amazing. She has fantastic screen presence and gives such an accomplished performance.

I also enjoy how I view Melanie/Olivia de Havilland differently as I get older. She is a very nuanced character and there are several shades.

This film has several complex female characters that were developed and had purpose and motives and desires in a way that even often cinema fails to capture well.

The worst character is IMO Ashley.
I always want to punch Aaaaashley in his stupid uncharismatic face. He is an infuriating character.

Mittens1717 · 27/12/2023 14:22

It's my absolute favourite movie, seen it so many times, never meant to be a romance, it's definitely of its time

beguilingeyes · 27/12/2023 14:22

crackofdoom · 27/12/2023 13:18

I wonder how a modern remake, perhaps seen through the eyes of different characters and informed by current attitudes on female oppression, racism and slavery would go down? Could be really interesting....

It would be bloody awful, IMO. I think it should be left in the period it was set. People are (mostly) smart enough to know that things were different back then.
The recent adaptation of Poldark tried to make it 'modern' to appeal to young audiences and it was awful.

Goingtothinkofone · 27/12/2023 14:22

FestiveFruitloop · 27/12/2023 14:15

I suspect it's more that people don't want to see/hear it being normalised...

Show quote history

I don’t think an old movie normalises it though. I actually think for our empathy as a society it’s really helpful to look through the eyes of history’s losers or bad guys. So yes, the confederates thought they were fighting to protect a way of life they thought was good. It’s important to understand that so we can take a step back and understand fully that yeah, they had that view but it was wrong. The film doesn’t need to do that last bit for us, we can do that ourselves.

There’s a danger with editing history to distill down history as ‘good guys’ and ‘bad guys’ because of course then we’re at massive risk of repeating the mistakes of the past. And telling the stories of the bad guys, from the perspective of what they thought they were trying to achieve, is important too.

Kannet111 · 27/12/2023 14:26

crackofdoom · 27/12/2023 13:18

I wonder how a modern remake, perhaps seen through the eyes of different characters and informed by current attitudes on female oppression, racism and slavery would go down? Could be really interesting....

I've always been surprised one hasn't been made. Not a direct remake but a big budget mini series about the old south. Could be very interesting

Ktime · 27/12/2023 14:26

It’s definitely problematic but I used to watch it as a teen and swoon over Rhett Butler. Vivienne Leigh was stunning.

And Mammy was one of the best characters and I was so happy Hattie Macdonald won an Oscar. Through my teenage eyes I thought the depiction of Mammy was positive as I saw that Scarlett treated her well but now I see it differently as an adult.

Ktime · 27/12/2023 14:30

Kannet111 · 27/12/2023 14:26

I've always been surprised one hasn't been made. Not a direct remake but a big budget mini series about the old south. Could be very interesting

Show quote history

There was that TV series sequel with Timothy Dalton., don’t think it was very good.

Tilllly · 27/12/2023 14:31

Great minds @HappyBusman

zigzag716746zigzag · 27/12/2023 14:32

Maireas · 27/12/2023 14:16

Nope. I never said it was a romantic melodrama, other folks have depicted it as such. (Hence the word conflating)
I know exactly what it's about, @zigzag716746zigzag

I was actually agreeing with you, but phrased it wrongly. Should perhaps have been “But how does one get “romantic melodrama” from Gone With the Wind?”

Tilllly · 27/12/2023 14:33

FestiveFruitloop · 27/12/2023 13:36

Yeah, content-wise I can't see why it was ever considered romantic either. I've heard various people rhapsodise about it being supposedly romantic over the years (even heard someone describe it as the most romantic film ever, once!) - it's beyond me how it could be viewed that way. I think there's a generational element to this, though.

derxa I take your point about resilience. I guess I just wish that theme was showcased within a less obnoxious story (to me anyway).

Oh I don't know

Rhett telling her she needs kissing badly, and by someone who knows how, is pretty romantic

In fiction anyway... I don't think that'd make me go weak kneed in reality!

Maireas · 27/12/2023 14:34

Sorry, @zigzag716746zigzag - it was the way you worded it, we're obviously in agreement! 😊