Page 6 | She used to fox hunt?!

Boxingdayhunts · 2023-12-26T22:29:45+00:00

name change urgh long story short - over Xmas got talking about newspiece about Boxing Day ‘trail hunts’. Got shock of my life when family member (married in not blood) revealed she had on occasion when younger joined hunts. actual fox hunts. this is something I feel strongly about. I would never have thought this about her. aibu to feel shocked, disappointed, and look a little differently at her now?

liveforsummer · 27/12/2023 12:17

NosnowontheScottishhills · 27/12/2023 12:02

“worked at a stable yard with a load of point to point horses”
Theres a very strong case for saying that they way many horse are kept especially race/competition horses is far crueller. Horse have evolved to walk about 20 miles day only eat fibre e.g. grass and live in small herds. But we coup them up in the equivalent to our downstairs loo where they stand in their own piss and shit for all if not the best part of a day, feed them a diet they were never evolved to eat and then wonder why they get colic etc deprive them of their intrinsic desire to live in a herd with fellow herd mates and most people dont bat an eyelid because we’ve put a rug on their and give them a nice cosy bed (I’m writing this is a life long horse owner). Frankly I think a wild fox even one eventually killed by hounds have a more natural and less cruel life.

Our race horses and pointers had daily turn out in a group. This was back in the late 90's and early 2000's. Loads more yards turning towards this now too. As for standing in shit and piss - have you seen the beds? I'd lie on them 😆. This is coming from me who's pony is on a yard I sourced because all horses live out 24/7 despite being at various levels of competition. Some thoroughbreds, warmbloods ISH etc.

NosnowontheScottishhills · 27/12/2023 12:19

twistyizzy · 27/12/2023 12:09

Actually many racehorse trainers/yards are changing their practices and allowing horses daily turnout etc and no livery yard near where I live allows individual turnout any more. Wherever humans interact with animals there is cruelty sadly

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“Daily turnout” is still not a natural way of keeping horses I’ve owned horses on highly regarded major completion yards and know friends who still keep their horses on them most are still turned out a few hours a day (if they are lucky) in small individual fields I travel extensively up and down the country and still mainly see horses in individual turnout. Many yards in the I know in the southwest have a no turn out policy on winter as horses poach the ground.
The household cavalry horses and many police horses are never turned out and many are tied up in stalls, most race horses especially those that race on the flat get insufficient fibre (hay). I could go on. And I haven’t even started on some training methods. Frankly a foxes life however it’s killed looks preferable.
If people want to start getting indignant about animal welfare start with horses.

CormorantStrikesBack · 27/12/2023 12:20

@NosnowontheScottishhills thankfully all 60 of our horses were out in fields in nice social groups all the time. Two came in overnight. They seemed happy enough.

Grammarnut · 27/12/2023 12:20

Why shouldn't she have gone fox hunting? I live in Leicestershire - home of five hunts. Many of the people I have known in the 50-odd years I have lived here have either hunted or followed the hunt (that is on foot, by bike, by car etc.). My DH used to hunt when he lived in the Shetlands - rabbit and hare for the table. Fox hunting is a tradition that overtook boar and wolf hunting when they became (thank the Lord) extinct in England - and there's a good chance those will come back if released boars need culling, because culling is what it is about (if the animal is also edible, that's a bonus). It's about riding horses, and most country folk do it if they keep a horse because it is the only time you can ride across fields and jump hedges. I think you are a bit judgemental. You don't agree with fox hunting. Some people do. And if you had had a fox in your chicken house you might too. You don't say how she feels now btw.

SunnieShine · 27/12/2023 12:23

I agree with you, OP. I couldn't feel the same about someone aftet hearing that.

CeriB82 · 27/12/2023 12:23

Foxes are vermin. I live in the country and hate them. They need hunting

CurlewKate · 27/12/2023 12:26

@Grammarnut "You don't agree with fox hunting. Some people do. And if you had had a fox in your chicken house you might too. You don't say how she feels now"

I am happy for animals to be culled if necessary and of course it sometimes is. But it is ridiculous to pretend that hunting is either a humane or efficient method of doing it.

DewHopper · 27/12/2023 12:26

CeriB82 · 27/12/2023 12:23

Foxes are vermin. I live in the country and hate them. They need hunting

I also live in the country and completely disagree.

CormorantStrikesBack · 27/12/2023 12:27

I had a fox take six chickens last year. I don’t blame the fox, I still don’t support fox hunting.

NosnowontheScottishhills · 27/12/2023 12:28

liveforsummer · 27/12/2023 12:17

Our race horses and pointers had daily turn out in a group. This was back in the late 90's and early 2000's. Loads more yards turning towards this now too. As for standing in shit and piss - have you seen the beds? I'd lie on them 😆. This is coming from me who's pony is on a yard I sourced because all horses live out 24/7 despite being at various levels of competition. Some thoroughbreds, warmbloods ISH etc.

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They are standing in piss and shit because even if your skipping out before you go to bed which many aren’t and then your getting up at 6 am to start mucking out they are still standing in piss and shit over night. And you are coupling up an animal evolved to be moving all the time in the equivalent of your downstairs loo. It’s hardly surprising that so many horses have respiratory problems/digestive problems and display behaviours that indicate stress. As one of the most famous horse vets once said to me hours should live outside in the fresh air with their friends eating 20+ hours a day that is what they have physiologically evolved to do.
Im writing this as a very experienced owner of horse for nearly 60 years who rode point to point horses/eventers/top dressage/endurance horses/show horses horses etc turned them out in groups with their friends and individually and also stabled then overnight/during the winter without really thinking about the long term effect on horses.

OverTheGrip · 27/12/2023 12:28

So many judgy people
No wonder there’s family arguments, rifts and loads of people NC.

cryinglaughing · 27/12/2023 12:28

Grimchmas · 26/12/2023 22:39

Horse owners used to go hunting for the riding, it was only the hunt employees who were interested in getting foxes killed. YABU to hold it against her.

This.
It was an opportunity for us to ride across country, fences and walls we would never have access to.

Rarely saw a fox!

twistyizzy · 27/12/2023 12:29

NosnowontheScottishhills · 27/12/2023 12:19

“Daily turnout” is still not a natural way of keeping horses I’ve owned horses on highly regarded major completion yards and know friends who still keep their horses on them most are still turned out a few hours a day (if they are lucky) in small individual fields I travel extensively up and down the country and still mainly see horses in individual turnout. Many yards in the I know in the southwest have a no turn out policy on winter as horses poach the ground.
The household cavalry horses and many police horses are never turned out and many are tied up in stalls, most race horses especially those that race on the flat get insufficient fibre (hay). I could go on. And I haven’t even started on some training methods. Frankly a foxes life however it’s killed looks preferable.
If people want to start getting indignant about animal welfare start with horses.

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So following that argument we shouldn't even be riding horses as it isn't natural. Of course we should allow them to live as naturally as possible but on such a small island where land is at a premium it isn't possible for many to live out 24/7.
Incidentally Carl Hester has top level horses who do live out 24/7 as this suits them best.
There is a strong movement in the horse world to increase welfare from grassroots up eg Pony Club now include 5 Freedoms from D+ test onwards and signs of pain in body language when being ridden.
The FEI are the biggest culprits in letting the blatant abuse of horses go unchallenged (endurance/SJ/dressage etc) and they are the biggest threat to horse welfare as they allow poor practices to carry on

bakewellbride · 27/12/2023 12:31

Meat, eggs and dairy are all far worse than fox hunting so if you consume any of them it's hypocritical for you to be upset / annoyed at fox hunting person.

JesusMaryAndJosephAndTheWeeDon · 27/12/2023 12:36

liveforsummer · 27/12/2023 12:12

@JesusMaryAndJosephAndTheWeeDon our previous fox hound pack are now a blood hound one. I'm so delighted, if I'm brave enough I might take the kids pony out myself which I wouldn't have considered with the fox hounds (Scotland so tighter laws anyway) . The use of the word set trail was just as you describe - a planned route (by the runner/hunt master/farmer) .

Give it a try, it is great fun!

Look out for a newcomers day if you are unsure.

The pack I used to go with have a non-jumping field every week and a first timer would be fine most days but some packs are very fast with lots of jumps so a newcomers day might be better. Pick a quieter meet for your first time rather than the high profile days like boxing day or the local stately home.

Willyoujustbequiet · 27/12/2023 12:38

NosnowontheScottishhills · 27/12/2023 12:10

You’re assuming a clean shot I’ve found a 1/2 dead maggot infested shot where the shot was not clean.
Friends hunted with hunts in the home countries no fox was even seen let alone killed all day.
Where I was brought up (50 years ago) the hunt lasted about 3 -4 hours max as most farmers had to get back for milking etc the majority of time was spent hanging around in the covers discussing the cost their calves made in the local market, who’d died/was getting married or most importantly “finally gone out of milk” maybe a couple of foxes were caught on a good day so hardly chased for hours.
In the wild animals as chased terrified and often exhausted before being killed.

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In the wild animals are chased by other animals for food and survival. Its basis of the natural world.

Humans do it for enjoyment. Again, absolutely not comparable.

squirrelnutkin10 · 27/12/2023 12:38

I used to hunt as a child and teen as l lived in the countryside, was passionate about riding and also countryside management, l still believe that foxhunting is the best and least cruel way to keep balance when it comes to foxes.
What do you think farmers do now they can't bring in the hunt to cull a problem fox that repeatedly kills their lambs and chickens? Trap them illegally, shoot them (which is very hard to do even as a good shot) possibly injuring the animal to crawl off and die?

Of course you are entitled to your views, but do you actually know anything about the countryside, and farming to be so 'shocked'?

Grammarnut · 27/12/2023 12:40

Grimchmas · 26/12/2023 22:50

I'm guessing she grew up rurally and you grew up in more urban surroundings.

For those of us who grew up in the countryside, and around horses, we were always taught that it was a kinder quicker death to the fox than shooting/trapping/poisoning. We were taught that foxes needed to be culled because they wreak devastation on farm animals (and that much is true). We all knew somebody whose hens had been attacked by foxes, and its not just as simple as fence them out as they can break into all sorts.

I wasn't ever 100% pro or against as a child or teenager, as i could see both sides. If I'd have been brave enough I would have ridden out with the hunt, because riding with the hunt isn't the same as e.g. going hunting with a gun on your arm. It wasn't until I was mid to late 20s that something somebody said to me made it click that fox hunting really wasn't okay with me, and that all the lines we were told about it being the kindest way didn't actually stack up.

Hunting probably is better than shooting or gassing - and one of these must be done since foxes can cause havoc (try finding one in your henhouse). Gassing kills everything else in a den/warren/set - the rabbits, the badgers, the insects, the stoats etc. - and does so horribly. Shooting, unless you are a marksman able to hit a running target accurately to kill at once, leaves the animal to die slowly of the wound (i.e. from starvation, gangrene, loss of blood) - this is why people who shoot hunt with dogs, the dog retrieves the wounded as well as the dead.

liveforsummer · 27/12/2023 12:44

@NosnowontheScottishhills you're preaching to the converted, as I said our entire yard lives out however with modern bedding used generously it remains pretty clean and dry. Mine lies down in the field on top of his shit too as he likes to lie down to munch his hay pile

NosnowontheScottishhills · 27/12/2023 12:45

twistyizzy · 27/12/2023 12:29

So following that argument we shouldn't even be riding horses as it isn't natural. Of course we should allow them to live as naturally as possible but on such a small island where land is at a premium it isn't possible for many to live out 24/7.
Incidentally Carl Hester has top level horses who do live out 24/7 as this suits them best.
There is a strong movement in the horse world to increase welfare from grassroots up eg Pony Club now include 5 Freedoms from D+ test onwards and signs of pain in body language when being ridden.
The FEI are the biggest culprits in letting the blatant abuse of horses go unchallenged (endurance/SJ/dressage etc) and they are the biggest threat to horse welfare as they allow poor practices to carry on

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Perhaps we should start a separate thread! 😀
Im not disputing what your saying and know all about Carl Hester this is one example but I personally know many top competition horses grass root riders and even happy hackers not able or willing to let their horses live out in groups 24/7. Increasingly as I and many of my fellow equine lovers stop doing things a certain because that’s how it’s always been done and start looking at the needs of a horse based upon its physical social and mental requirement then we do need to question what we are doing. I’m not an animal sentimentalist by any stretch of the imagination and I think there needs to be a balance but people jump up and down about farm animals, zoos and hunting of foxes (20+ years ago) and seem happy to turn a blind eye to the plight of many horses.
Im sorry I don’t think lack of land due to living us living on an island is a good enough excuse for poor horse welfare let’s not pretend that makes it ok. Own it admit that you and I and many others don’t keep our horses in ideal conditions don’t pat ourselves on the back and say it’s fine because they get daily turnout in groups and deep beds at night (horses by the way unlike pigs are not nesting animals) therefore it’s ok, unless a horse is living a natural life there is a necessary degree of cruelty.

LifeonMarsnotVenus · 27/12/2023 12:46

I live in the countryside, keep chickens and don’t support Fox hunting. The tide is turning.

A couple of years ago we had some idiots riding and yawping in the field next to ours with their dogs and I let my two very large dogs go for a run in the field and chase off the horses and riders. My friend who owns the surrounding fields also hates fox hunting.

The riders haven’t been back…! 😂

Dotjones · 27/12/2023 12:50

I couldn't get worked up about this, assuming she did fox hunting back when it was legal what's the problem? I know there's an attitude that we should pardon people who did things wrong in the past that wouldn't have been illegal now, homosexuality convictions for example, but as far as I know nobody has been retrospectively "convicted" for doing something that was legal at the time but would be illegal now. Oscar Wilde for example wouldn't have been jailed for homosexuality nowadays but would have been jailed for child sex abuse if he were offending today.

NosnowontheScottishhills · 27/12/2023 12:52

@Willyoujustbequiet Humans do it for enjoyment. Again, absolutely not comparable.
Enjoyment of the riding and camaraderie and necessity to keep number of foxes down to manageable numbers.

NosnowontheScottishhills · 27/12/2023 12:55

LifeonMarsnotVenus · 27/12/2023 12:46

I live in the countryside, keep chickens and don’t support Fox hunting. The tide is turning.

A couple of years ago we had some idiots riding and yawping in the field next to ours with their dogs and I let my two very large dogs go for a run in the field and chase off the horses and riders. My friend who owns the surrounding fields also hates fox hunting.

The riders haven’t been back…! 😂

So you think it’s acceptable for your dogs to chase and terrify and possibly seriously injure a horse (a prey animal). But it’s not acceptable to kill a fox surely even you cant be so obtuse not to see that this is pure double standards.

cerisepanther73 · 27/12/2023 13:01

@Glarptip

Interesting you 🤔 are describing @Boxingdayhunts as being getting worked up about nothing,

I have read books seen, true life crimes documententries the ones based in America and in the UK,

One of the criteria of misanthropic disturbing behaviours associated with psychopaths ect who can and do commit crimes as severe as murders,

Can be animal cruelties behaviour by disturbed individuals,
before they go on to commit crimes such as murders,

getting enjoyment, getting your kicks off on seeing a fox ripped to pieces by dogs 🐕

Is seriously disturbing behaviour. !😳

Weirdo behaviour, !

Just like Spanish bull fighting and badger baiting ect