Genuine question re: immigration, not trying to be goady!

[questionsICantAskInRL]

This is a genuine question please don’t accuse me of trying to be goady or whatever the hell people say on mumsnet:

my question is countries like USA who literally took over the country from the natives therefore have no right being there, how can they talk about immigrants taking over their jobs, their country etc? Also the UK how can they talk about immigrants etc. when they invaded lots of countries with the British empire and took all the wealth and gems etc and killed thousands of people who opposed them then complain that the same countries try to come over to make their lives better.

thread title edited by MNHQ at OP's request.

As IF the U.K. controls its borders!!!!

That went out the window when Brexit happened.

I think most have said it is not as racist as other countries. Many countries have issues with race in some way, just depends on how covert/overt it is and the who towards.

As an immigrant I am frequently amazed at witnessing good, intelligent people going off on a rant about "bloody foreigners coming and taking our jobs" etc.

When I remind them I'm not a British citizen the response is always "well I'm not talking about you! You're ok!!"

And the reason for that is I'm white and English is my first language!

But yes - none of us have the right to be racist and have a blanket condemnation of foreigners. I do understand the need to control some movement so that resources aren't stretched too thin so know that there has to be some rules about who can come and live in the UK. But if there was a massive catastrophe, another Nazi style holocaust brewing would any of us really want to stop truly desperate people from entering the UK?? Wouldn't we all want to be helping with the Kindertransport or Underground Railroad??

It is not hundreds of years ago though. India was independent just about 75 years ago. Many African countries got freedom so much later. It is not an ancestral problem. Also while you personally may not be responsible, it is entrenched in your country's history and cannot simply be erased because it is not current.

Indeed it's not.
My husband's father and some other relatives were part of the Mau Mau freedom army

@Whygobald lots of Orish immigrants in U.K. which is justified as they were left so impoverished by the English. All immigrants from British Empire ruled countries are welcome in my mind. You reap what you sow.

*Irish

anyone of the opinion that colonialism is distant history - maybe look up the bengal famine (specifically Churchill's role in redirecting aid heading for the region) and how aboriginal and indigenous canadian children were taken from their parents forcibly to 'civilise' them

colonisers even killed koalas by the hundreds of thousands as they were seen as pests (they arent).

I change my username every couple of days. I love being as private as I can. Don’t assume people are new users or have sinister motives.

Who is saying it's distant history though. It's modern history. It may have been tragic but it doesn't mean borders should all be open, that is a terrible idea.

Also, if the famine was in 1943, anyone involved would be over 100 years old (and that's assuming they were as young as 20).

I think my parents are old, in their 60s. They were born in the 1950s.

Hate to break this to you but in the entire history of humanity one band or tribe has displaced another band or tribe. How far do you want to go back until everyone is where they should be in your eyes?

None of what you state happened in my name. So why should I, and the current generations, be held to account for something that happened in a different place, different time hundreds of years ago? Fed of people saying we should apologise and feel guilty for something that was done many many generations ago.

Really depends on the type of immigrants. It is very naive to assume that every person is going to add to the country. If you get a bunch of criminals and terrorists that would have a negative impact on the country. Basically, you need to vet who is coming to the country.

I agree with RubySundayy about click bait or useless thread titles. Also it is goady to start going on about the British Empire or the USA.

Very much agreed, I live in the US and most of my friends and some of my ancestors are indigenous. It's really horrible what has been done and is still being done to them. I used to work with activists to try and help at least protect the little land and resources they have left but the government is too greedy, it's futile. For this reason and many more I'm "going back to where I came from" ironically and saving to buy a house in my home country. Even though I've never even been there. Many places our ancestors immigrated from are dealing with population decline, especially in more rural areas, that also happen to be incredible in terms of history, architecture, culture, etc. I think a lot more people will be doing this as the US is falling apart and has destroyed the environment. It didn't take them long either! It's such a deplorable tragedy.

To be fair most U.K. immigration is linked to wars we have been involved in a lot more recently than that.

And we're all participating in the fossil fuel caused climate emergency that is causing the exodus from Africa and will cause an exodus from the Pacific and other islands as sea levels continue to rise.

That's the logic Tory immigration policy is based on.

Bring in qualified immigrants to do the well paid jobs and leave all the zero hours contract, low paid no pension type ones for British people.

It didn't take long to start attacking Ireland or Irish Americans or lumping in Irish with English, Scottish and Welsh. This is 'whatever the hell people say on mumsnet'.

Something is only 'history' with no relevance if nobody alive today has any personal experience of it, nobody alive today knows anyone who had any personal experience of it and nobody is in any way disadvantaged or discriminated against because of it. So for example no systems in place today that discriminate against any one particular group of people. Eg institutional racism.

So the Akkadian empire? History.

The British empire? Not so
much.

We're as responsible for the British empire as random Germans or Japanese people are for ww2. It's all history.

It has some relevance, clearly, but it's not the only determinant of immigration policy.

you can't judge the past based on today's standards.
morality and values change.

Can anyone explain to why they think immigration/diversity is good without using circular reasoning?

Click bait title

Modern humans began to edge out the Neanderthals in Europe about 46,000 years ago, the BBC tells me.

I imagine the Neanderthals were complaining to eachother about the bloody migrants.

Freedom