To people who believe in ghosts..

[AnxiousAnniee]

I used to believe in ghosts when I was a child but as an adult I don’t. I find that there’s too many things that don’t make sense to me and just aren’t logical. When you actually start thinking about it and what it means to be a ghost, I think it just seems silly. I get that everyone has a different opinion though so I’m really genuinely interested to hear what people believe about the following questions…

• if ghosts exist and look like the person who has died, how do they walk around and move things without muscles or a brain? How do people hear ghosts giggle and speak if they Dont have a brain or a voice box? If they are just a see through sprit how can they really do this? You can’t move, think, or talk without a brain. And they don’t have a brain or muscles because they are spirits.
• similarly with moving things around or opening cupboards. First of all why would they do this? Why would a ghost turn a tap on??? For what reason? Secondly if they are so light and see through and can walk through things, how can they pick things up instead of just moving through them?
• if a ghost is a spirit and someone’s soul, then how come they are always wearing clothes when people claim to have seen them? Clothes don’t die and clothes don’t have souls, so clothes don’t have an afterlife and shouldn’t come back as clothes ghosts. They should all be naked.
• how come people only ever see ghosts of loved ones and scary Victorian children or soldiers and things? How come no one ever sees a caveman ghost or a chav ghost in trackies? (Again, they shouldn’t really be wearing anything anyway)
• if ghosts are souls then that means everyone will turn into a ghost when they die. Which means we are currently SWAMPED with ghosts. They’re everywhere. We’re constantly walking through them everywhere we go because that many people have died in the world, we are bombarded with them
• what about baby ghosts? Babies can’t walk so does that mean that there’s loads of ghost babies just lay on the floor all around us?

I’m not taking the piss here, these are genuine questions that I have asked myself when I believed. And the more I think about it the more I just don’t believe it. However, I’m aware that people still do, so I’d love to hear what you think the answers are to these questions and what you think ghosts actually are, and their purpose?

@WhatsTheUseOfWorrying

Denying the existence of ghosts isn’t opinion, it’s fact

Yes, I wasn't asking you to state your opinion harder, I was asking where your evidence is for this fact you seem so sure of. Do you have any evidence? Or is it just your opinion?

I've had so many experiences I could write a book. I don't have psychosis or a brain tumour. I question things, was it drafts, static electricity etc? My mum said we come from a long line of psychic women. DH is really against this sort of thing. Each person has their own beliefs.
I haven't seen a ghost but I've felt things and smelled things that I really can't explain, lots of times. My brother has seen lots of ghosts. I have heard things numerous times over the years. Footsteps and crashes when alone. I don't get scared but my mind is open. We don't know everything 🤷

I don't know the answer to your questions but I have seen a couple of ghosts. I am always stunned by people on here shrieking they can't be real because THEY haven't seen one.
The first one I saw was my grumpy cat that went missing. I saw him once in my bedroom and he just looked like himself but transparent.
My dad and I both saw him on the stairs one night. I don't see how someone can explain that away?
We both hallucinated exactly the same thing as the same time?
The other one was an old man in a house we rented when I was a child.
We all saw him at different times, except my mum refused to believe us because she was terrified.

My mum said we come from a long line of psychic women.

No you don't.

Numerous experiments spanning decades has resulted in a scientific consensus that there is no proof of the existence of psychic powers, its pseudoscience.

This is such a good post OP. I also think about the huge number of people who have ever died when anyone says that an object moving or whatever was a sign from someone who has passed. Inwardly I think, ok so you're saying that with death comes the gift of being able to manipulate physical objects on earth. Since time began there have been quite a few hundred billion people dying, and lots of them would have been quite mischievous. Surely we'd no longer be able to move around freely, as all the available space in the entire world would be full of objects being thrown around by ghosts!

I'm open minded on ghosts and spirits, the paranormal etc

I used to work with somebody that told me an experience that they had which unnerved me though and they definitely believed they had seen what they were telling me

I've had an interest in ufology for about three years. Again I was open minded, leaned towards that we have been visited though

In July I saw something whilst at the park with DD4 and it's helped me make up my mind. I think a lot of what is seen is sent to monitor us, it's unmanned

It was a weird experience and it all happened so fast. I trust my eyes though and I know what I saw

Numerous experiments spanning decades has resulted in a scientific consensus that there is no proof of the existence of psychic powers

Why are you taking this as proof of something, @TheCadoganArms ? It's proof that we haven't found any proof for either argument, isn't it?

"When someone looks at me and earnestly says, “I know what I saw,” I am fond of replying, “No you don’t.” You have a distorted and constructed memory of a distorted and constructed perception, both of which are subservient to whatever narrative your brain is operating under."

Steve Novella- Neuroscientist

If incredible things cannot be shown by incredible evidence, they’re not true.

The moon is not made of cheese.

GrandParade no, the 'tale' - what he witnessed - has not shifted or changed in all these years. He knows what he - and others - saw that day and I don't doubt it in the slightest. It was an unforgettable experience for him.

I respect your own non belief but I do believe, as does my Dad and many thousands of people over the history of time who have experienced this.

@WhatsTheUseOfWorrying

If incredible things cannot be shown by incredible evidence, they’re not true

According to what authority? Lots and lots of opinions on this thread being stated as fact, including someone saying that the fact that there's no proof is proof of something.

No idea what gives people the idea that their opinion trumps the fact that science has never found anything to refute the existence of ghosts/paranormal etc, or to prove that many people's lived experience was anything other than paranormal.

We simply don't know. The human ego is very funny once it gets going, and gets it's teeth into something. That much, we do know!

There is more than dreamt of in our philosophy. The alternative stance is 'We know everything!' which is ridiculous.

Why? I guess coming from an engineering background I am more willing to place my trust in the scentific method and its peer reviewed outcomes over your mum's claims of hereditary psychic abilities and various other anecdotal woo stories.

All the evidence points to there being no such thing as the paranormal. They have never shown up under scientific testing conditions. And there has always been a rational explanation for any event subjected to scrutiny.

Obviously this does not mean that there definitely isn't anything paranormal,but we're still waiting for it.

It’s the human ego and suggestibility I’m suspicious of, but you’re not.

There is not a shred of reliable evidence for ghosts - just stories. Even if we were to accept sightings as evidence, why do ghosts not appear on video after video? Why do they not appear in front of the crowd and tv cameras at the centre court at Wimbledon? Why are they so keen to show up to people on their own in badly lit creaky buildings?

Do you believe there’s a possibility that the moon is made of cheese? Scientists’ “opinions” about that might be wrong, presumably.

@AnxiousAnniee I think it's called Uncanny and hopefully on bbc iplayer. Take a look!

Oh another damn thread, and this one SPECIFICALLY states If you believe in ghosts, where the doubters turn up en masse.

Ty OP for the interesting thread but I am out now

Merry Christmas

@WhatsTheUseOfWorrying

It’s the human ego and suggestibility I’m suspicious of, but you’re not

I'm just as sceptical about science as I am about beliefs of whether ghosts do or do not exist. Do you not understand that science is what we know so far, rather than 'the final answer'? Have you not recognised that 'science' is still being worked on, and that any respectable scientist won't claim that we are 100% sure of anything at all?

@TheCadoganArms

I've never mentioned my mum on MN, so it looks like your 'scientific methods' might not be as accurate as you'd like to think.

I'm a history teacher and I always find it interesting that ghosts are always from popularised eras, remembered eras or televised eras.

So people see Romans, but not Saxons or Vikings, despite their longevity of occupation and existence. They see Tudors, but not Georgians. Nobody sees the ages and ages of feudal peasants or eons of Iron and Bronze Age. There's not a lot of reported Cromwellian ghosts but honestly, there should be! Most ghosts should just be pissed off peasants.

Loads of people see random figures.

How the hell would we know? You need to ask a proper ghost you silly…

Good luck in finding one, but don’t despair, you may learn how once you are on the other side.

@Watchkeys "I'm just as sceptical about science as I am about beliefs of whether ghosts do or do not exist. Do you not understand that science is what we know so far, rather than 'the final answer'?"

Of course. But you don't have to be sceptical about science. What we know now fits the evidence we have now. New evidence? Our position changes.but the chances have to be backed up. There is currently no evidence for the paranormal. Some may emerge in the future, in which case, things will change.

I'm a scientist so don't belive in life after death death. The moment you die you cease to exist and thats very hard to get your head around. Theres no meaning to life or grand design. Its all a happy accident and one day our sun will die and there will be nothing, forever. Don't belive in heaven. So in theory can't belive in ghosts.

But with the UFO footage from fighter pilots, I don't and never have and never will belive that humans know everything and they never will or can. Imagine if IQ was limitless, we'd all look pretty dense. Like insects can see different light. Imagine what we can't see that's right here for real all around us.

I'm a scientist so don't belive in life after death

Non sequitur of the day. Some scientists believe in the existence of the divine and some don’t. Science is a method of analysing the phenomenal world, it has nothing to say of the noumenal world.

• if ghosts exist and look like the person who has died, how do they walk around and move things without muscles or a brain? How do people hear ghosts giggle and speak if they Dont have a brain or a voice box? If they are just a see through sprit how can they really do this? You can’t move, think, or talk without a brain. And they don’t have a brain or muscles because they are spirits.
have you ever heard about amputated limbs causing pain? Although the limb has been removed the amputee can still suffer pain in the limb, despite the limb not being there. There are no neural networks connecting limb to nervous system, yet the pain is very real to the amputee....we don't fully understand why I or how it happens, and it doesn't happen in every case. There is also something known as muscle memory, it can be used by AHP particularly physios, often following a stroke, when the message from brain to limb has been disrupted or broken
• similarly with moving things around or opening cupboards. First of all why would they do this? because they want to get your attention Why would a ghost turn a tap on??? as above For what reason? Secondly if they are so light and see through and can walk through things, how can they pick things up instead of just moving through them? telekinesis
• if a ghost is a spirit and someone’s soul, then how come they are always wearing clothes when people claim to have seen them? would you really want to see your great great grandfather naked? Clothes don’t die and clothes don’t have souls, so clothes don’t have an afterlife and shouldn’t come back as clothes ghosts. They should all be naked a spirit person knows seeing them naked would be much more frightening them seeing them clothed!
• how come people only ever see ghosts of loved ones and scary Victorian children or soldiers and things? do they? If the spirit wants to come back to give their loved one comfort that would be why. so a relative or friend coming back would make sense. there is a beliefe that if someone has died too soon, or before they were ready their spirit is restless and they can't go on, until they have found the key they need to move on How come no one ever sees a caveman ghost probably because too much time has passed or a chav ghost in trackies? how do you know they haven't, clothes are just for keeping warm and modesty, I doubt if someone sees a loved one clothing would register too much, as iit wouldn't be any different in how they dressed when they were alive (Again, they shouldn’t really be wearing anything anyway)
• if ghosts are souls then that means everyone will turn into a ghost when they die. Which means we are currently SWAMPED with ghosts. They’re everywhere. We’re constantly walking through them everywhere we go because that many people have died in the world, we are bombarded with them because not
everyone wants or needs to come back as a ghost, most will want to go on
• what about baby ghosts? Babies can’t walk so does that mean that there’s loads of ghost babies just lay on the floor all around us? I was going to answer this, but it doesn't sit comfortably. Discussing the possibility of great aunt Prudence doing a Lady Button impression, compared to someone losing a baby, just feels insensitive.

No idea how it works op, just thought I might have a go answering your questions. realistically no one has the answers, because you either believe (have a faith) or dont (atheist) or sit on the fence (agnostic).