Do you not actually talk to your partners about Christmas in advance?

[Merryoldgoat]

I’m utterly perplexed by the threads and posts on social media from women (ALL women so far) who have either no presents at all or a really shit present they don’t like.

Surely this isn’t possible unless your partner is lazy or simply doesn’t like you?

I could think of around 10 things to get DH at any one time and he me. Not especially exciting but nice and pleasant and thoughtful.

Do you not have a conversation which is basically ‘this is the Christmas budget - what is reasonable to spend on each other this year?’

I just cannot conceive of waking up, having bought someone I love a pile of gifts and them having bought me bollocks all.

DH and I have had lean years and done a £20 limit and still get nice stuff.

What has gone wrong? How can a relationship be this broken?

Yeah I agree. I have had so many disappointing occasions with exes.

Actually even with current DH until I grew up and realised he wasn't a mind reader. Also that for 364 other days he's really kind and considerate. Cooks all the meals, defrosts my car etc so we're a proper team.

I don't know why I would somehow try and get him to up his game at Xmas or whatever.

Yep so many of these threads along with all the "helpful" suggestions to write a list, or buy it all yourself and let him wrap it- assuming such an incompetent can be trusted with scissors

Happens every Christmas

We don't discuss a budget. I tell DH what I want because he is crap at presents (but generous). I get him stuff I think he will like.

I realised he was crap at presents early on so it's easier to just ask for exact stuff I want. I am also fussy and don't want surprises in case I don't like them.

Expectations around gifts were something we discussed within the first two months of meeting (essentially, neither of us place much importance on them and we'd rather have experiences instead - 10 years on we still just do token gifts).

It's not just gifts though - 90% of the AIBU/relationships threads read like the OP and her partner have never communicated about anything in advance, and it's taken them 15 years to realise the fundamental characteristics of who they married.

I do but DH has family issues and his parents genuinely couldn’t organise a piss up in a brewery - that level of organisation is behind them and PIL always want to fit around golden boy BIL.

What I don't understand is, when men are 'crap at presents' why they never google 'how to choose presents' - there's loads of brilliant tips out there, such as making a note of when your partner goes 'oh, that's my favourite xxx' throughout the year.
Oh that's right, because they are lazy and don't care if you get upset, really, because you'll only be mad for a day then write it off as 'he's crap at presents teehee'
They work in Big Jobs but somehow can't manage to pay attention to the woman they live with and remember what she likes.
I DESPAIR. STOP BEING TAKEN FOR MUGS.

Surely this isn’t possible unless your partner is lazy or simply doesn’t like you

But i think this is the case a lot of the time, the women might drop hints of ask for something but the men don't listen because they can't be arsed.

I've always considered Christmas gifting is for the children, so neither of us massively go into it for each other.

Some years DH gets me all sorts, other years minimal and vice versa for me to him. We tend to go bigger on birthdays.

However, reading some of the threads here I have to say it just sounds like some DH/DP simply must not like the posters very much..

I find it baffling too, but I’m more appalled by how unequal and unpleasant many of the relationship dynamics regarded as ‘normal’ on here are. I’m assuming that presents loom large in that context because posters are consciously or unconsciously resentful of being mistreated, and angry with themselves for tolerating it.

DH and I are similar @MooseAndSquirrelLoveFlannel

Last year we bought a coffee machine. This year we bought presents and I got all manner of bollocks - boots I saw when we were out, crafting bits, a couple of joke gifts etc - gifts that shows he knows and likes me.

You can show care and love with £20 and the complete opposite with £200.

When I say ‘bollocks’ i mean all kind of little random bits - not that the gifts were bollocks - they were lovely.

I don’t get it either. So many people on here seem to have thoughtless husbands and/or unhappy relationships. Makes me appreciate mine all the more!

MN has taught me that there are a lot of dysfunctional relationships where both parties treat each other with quiet contempt. Thoughtless presents are just par for true course in that sort of relationship.

Also I think broadly, men just have lower expectations for gifts and don’t see them as some sort of symbol of their own value and worth. If you read any of the “What have you got your DH for Christmas - need ideas!” threads that pop up in December, the responses are mostly along the lines of “whisky, scarf, socks, cheese tasting set, random tool.” And the givers seem to think their husbands will receive these with delight. Whereas if many women were given the “female equivalents” of those (e.g. gin, scarf, tights, chocolate tasting set, spatula) they’d be posting in upset at them being thoughtless and impersonal gifts, in a way men really don’t often seem to get.

I’m really surprised by the amount of threads that are shocked by the presents they’ve received, that their DPs will be visiting their mum or that the timings of the day are causing arguments.

I would have thought these sorts of things would have been discussed way in advance.

What I continually see is that men will go by the expectations on other men around them. That sets the bar for them. Do they get away with not participating in christmas? Was I expected to participate in Christmas or birthdays growing up?

They might do one nice ish thing when dating someone and the women gives the benefit of the doubt. After all we don't want to be seen as spoilt goldigging ect (its absolutely not)
Then once comfortable the man reverts back despite the upset girlfriend or wife who then says to their face I am upset you got me nothing for birthday/Christmas.

But weaponized incompetence and because my dad Bob Harry John from work do f all and are still married it's unreasonable. Just be happy I work. Just be happy I don't hit you.
If that women is surrounded by women all in the same ish situation which I see in my everyday life. Then they don't see an alternative. It looks ridiculous to split up get divorced over not getting a Christmas present.(it's not, and won't be the only issue)

So they give up. I dont blame the women I blame the men. The women are communicating. The men are just shit but that's the majority. The un shit one's have been trained by a women most of the time. In any way you look at it its just embarassing for the men. Why are men not realising this? Why are men not going up to every man in their life and pulling them up. Why is it always womens fault and womens jobs to change it.

I think if we knew truly how most men view women point blank unfiltered honest view. At best we'd feel embarrassed no respect for them. At worst we'd be scared and feel unsafe with them.

Yes I do think women need to uphold stronger boundaries for themselves but the reality of that looks like so many divorces and being single waiting for these rare men that are capable. It's exhausting and daunting. I don't agree it's right to settle but I can see why it seems pointless to rock the boat.

I don’t think I would get a Christmas present unless I made it really clear I wanted one. My DPs family don’t really do gifts. But he now understands that it is important to me so he tries. I agree communicating is really important.

Surely this isn’t possible unless your partner is lazy or simply doesn’t like you?
this is where you hit the nail on the head. Women do not realise how men dont actually like women.

Yes, I think this as well. I feel loved, thought of and cared for in my relationship all year round (as does DP, I hope) so I don't really place any extra importance on birthday or Xmas gifts. A lot of people in unhappy relationships use those two days per year as a litmus test that actually, their relationship isn't as miserable as it seems for the other 363.

Thus is pretty much the point, isn't it?

Man - pretty crap at presents
Also Man - he's great the rest of the year
Woman - I get him things I think he'd like
Also Woman - I'm a bit high maintenance so I tell him what to get

I don't get it. We don't bother, usually. This year he bought me a heavy weight vinyl album because he spotted it a couple of weeks ago and thought of me. I bought him nothing. Some years I have spotted something. We don't care, don't fuss over it.

I know that sounds po-faced. But we do actually communicate and make sure we spend time doing stuff we don't normally behave time to do.

Those threads are very odd — as though anonymous strangers on the internet are going to have better ideas about presents for a specific man than someone who has been married to that specific man for years. It’s as though there’s some generic Man Type and generic Man Gifts.

Mind you, it does actually seem that a significant proportion of Mners believe men are a generic category, who can’t see dirt, have the emotional intelligence of a rock, and whose brain processes go something like ‘FOOTBALLGRUNTOUTWITHTHELADSNICEASSONPASSINGWOMANFOOTBALLWORKFOOTBALLOHDAMNMUSTBUYWIFEAPRESENT’.

DH is a great partner but is a bit crap at getting presents. He used to get things that he'd put thought into, but were just not what I'd have picked. So now we send each other suggestions by email, but with life getting busier even ordering and choosing from a range of options is a hassle, so this year I just bought stuff I wanted and got him to wrap them. He did buy me a new phone as well, which was a specific model I wanted, so not much to think about. We have joint finances so it doesn't make any difference who has ordered something, and I'm better at shopping around and using discount codes so I prefer to do the buying.

I usually get DH practical gifts, but he's quite hard to buy for as he has no hobbies or particular interests. I just get new versions of things that have worn out or broken. Neither of us tend to like the generic "gifts for women"/"gifts for men" things that get suggested by shops.

We don't discuss budgets at all, but neither of us would pick anything outrageously expensive and finances are comfortable enough not to worry about the cost too much.

@gannett
It's not just gifts though - 90% of the AIBU/relationships threads read like the OP and her partner have never communicated about anything in advance, and it's taken them 15 years to realise the fundamental characteristics of who they married.

So true, I have posted on this point on other Threads,
It is about having to do so much more in a day than I did in the 60s.(yes I am that old!) From the mid 70s competitiveness started to spread from sport to business. 70s 80s self help books and tapes to improve performance at work.
That was followed by writers like Shirley Conran and the idea of "having it all". The novelty of it has now worn off. Everybody is at a similar level. We saw house prices rise then inflation. Low grade politicians wasting public money and inevitably austerity.
We are all ground down and can only concentrate on what is in front of us. I can see the changes but most of the MN have known no other way to live.

My dad rarely bought my mother a Christmas gift she actually liked (or us kids). He adored my mother but was genuinely baffled and overwhelmed by the whole concept of gift buying. Which of course was intensely annoying to my mother but he really couldnt help it.

The DH knows what I like. On rare occasions I’ve suggested a specific book, he’s opted to buy me something else because he knows I like a surprise. Several times in the days when we bought CDs we bought each other the same one 😂 But generally we can be trusted to buy stuff we like at same level and not need to discuss in advance.

We do discuss things but honestly, i cant think of nice gifts for my DH and he has no ideas for himself either. I also cant think of things i want. Ive bought him some total crap sometimes. Luckily the only time ive been upset by my present was when it was cleaning equipment.