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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

My H just made me cry, am I being too sensitive ?

68 replies

redcarl · 25/12/2023 18:39

I don't want to drip feed but equally I do want to add context.

H is self employed and so is away a lot and very very busy with his work. Works from 7 am until 8 pm out of the house, at least 5 times a week and sometimes 6 times a week.

Anyway we have two kids and I have basically been on my own with them. Things are getting a bit better now ( I also work full time from home ).

Anyway, I really struggled with depression and loneliness, especially when they were babies.

I don't have family nearby or many friends as we moved.

So in any case today we were talking with relatives about the fact that more dads get paternity leave nowadays. I said I thought it was great and that I don't think caring for a baby or several babies on your own as a mum, most of the time is actually natural and probably has something to do with why many mums suffer from depression after having had a baby.

I said that I think it takes a village to raise a child and that back in the day, mums used to have sisters and cousins and aunts and mums and grandmas who would be around much more to help raise that baby and that it's a more modern concept that a mum is basically just home alone all the time with a baby and no support network.

He replied saying that depression is a first world problem and that you just have to get on with it and that if you need to go out to make a living then there's no time for a depressed mum and she just has to get on with it.

He also then started making it personal saying that I didn't want lots of visitors when I had a newborn.

He knows how much I struggle and have struggled but never acknowledges it and it's really upset me. I ended up walking off.

I then ended up not being able to stop crying and hid away from everyone for a bit.

He says he was just joking around but it didn't feel that way and it's really upset me.

Am I being sensitive here ? I know he may not agree with my point of view but he could have just said it's nice that there's more paternity leave nowadays.

OP posts:
Xmas2023namechange · 25/12/2023 20:03

Hatty65 · 25/12/2023 18:54

I said that I think it takes a village to raise a child and that back in the day, mums used to have sisters and cousins and aunts and mums and grandmas who would be around much more to help raise that baby and that it's a more modern concept that a mum is basically just home alone all the time with a baby and no support network.

He's an utter arse and I'm not defending him in any way at all, but I think your view on how much help women got is extremely rose tinted. Women were very much tied to the house, alone and raising children. In my generation (60s) and my DMs generation (80s) to my deceased DGM I didn't know anyone who had people around that helped with the baby. You never got a babysitter, or a night out! If you had female relatives around who weren't out working then they were busy - cooking/cleaning/raising their own DC. I gave birth in the late 80s/early 90s and it was very lonely. I think it's a very modern concept that you might need help with a baby .

I'm not suggesting you don't, btw. I'm just saying that it's only fairly recently that PND is acknowledged or discussed.

In my grandma's generation, housewives took a shit tonne of valium etc for post partum mental health issues. My grandad was a GP in the 60s, 70s, 80s and it was a commonly discussed problem. My mum was raised with help of a load of female neighbours, family friends, church community because my Grandma worked.

Obviously thus is just anecdotal and one family, I wasn't alive to know what it was really like.

MooseAndSquirrelLoveFlannel · 25/12/2023 20:13

I mean, he's right in that someone has to go to work and provide for the family. Its only a modern phenomenon where the benefits system can support households where no parent works for whatever reason. Maybe he felt you were digging at him, when he's busting his ass 6 days a week.

I've had depression, but I do think there is a spectrum of depression. There are those who are seriously unwell, for whome life is too much and they genuinely need help, and there are those who need to get up, seize the day and work through it in a more positive light......and then everything inbetween.

The whole "takes a village" btw is nonsense. I think you'll find there are more families out there managing on their own, than those with super involved extended family and friends. Great if that happens, but anyone who goes into parenting thinking they'll have help is sadly off base. More so now the work force has to work till almost 70.

Your DH was insensitive, but I think you took it the wrong way.

mamamanda · 25/12/2023 20:13

YABU. Your husband is working whilst you're a SAHM. If he quits his job and decides to be a SAHP to lessen your workload and support you as you wish, wouldn't you struggle financially?
Equally he could say that he's depressed, I'm sure he'd prefer to work less and it sounds like he's working hard. But what can he do? Would complaining and being depressed help?

SelectiveParticipation · 25/12/2023 20:14

redcarl · 25/12/2023 19:45

I wasn't really making it personal though. Was just saying in general that it's good to have more paternity leave nowadays.

It is. I’m in a country where most dads take 50% of it, so 240 days. But it’s normal here, I don’t think it’s the same in the UK. At least yet.

In your situation I can see your dh’s point too though.

SelectiveParticipation · 25/12/2023 20:19

I think if he had just acknowledged to everyone that yes, you have a point and it can’t be easy to do what you do either and he is thinks you are doing a great job, you would have been fine.

But he took what you said as being passive aggressive, and replied to that. Which I can also understand.

Whatsthestorynow · 25/12/2023 20:22

VeterinaryCareAssistant · 25/12/2023 19:13

I agree with your husband tbh. I've only noticed recently that women seem to find it so hard. When I had mine (I had 3 under 2 and a half at one point) I just got on with things and didn't expect help from others.

Yawn.

laclochette · 25/12/2023 20:22

I think he was being horrible and also you're right. People here referring back to the mid 20th century as a reference point are missing the point. Humans didn't evolve in these conditions, that is a very artificial setup too. We evolved within very tight knit social groups where there was a lot of communal childcare, where sisters and cousins and so on would all have children close in age, etc. This literally is part of how humans could evolve to have babies that are so helpless compared to other species' infants, and so dependent on adults for so very long - because those adults were around to help. Working away from the home is also a very modern phenomenon, by which I mean "modern" in the historical sense of the last 600 years.

But this isn't really about an anthropological discussion, fascinating as that is. It's about him belittling your experience. You are the expert on your feelings, not him. It's horrible to be dismissed like that. I wonder if he feels guilty and it's coming out this way towards you.

Windmill34 · 25/12/2023 20:25

People who have never had depression usually come out with statements like
you just have to get on with it

If the shoe was on their foot
the statement would be completely different!!

Whatsthestorynow · 25/12/2023 20:25

I would be upset too OP. Your DP sounds very insensitive & dismissive. I’d like to see him try bringing up two kids mostly on his own!

SelectiveParticipation · 25/12/2023 20:26

You are the expert on your feelings, not him.

Well, he is an expert on his feelings then, isn’t he.

alwaysmovingforwards · 25/12/2023 20:26

I think it's fair for you to feel upset.
It's also clear he has strong feelings on how he perceives you've handled motherhood so far.

heyheyheyy · 25/12/2023 20:33

To be honest I think you’re both in the wrong. Your post is hard to follow, was this conversation held in front of your family over Christmas?

You are obviously not happy with your current situation so it’s a delicate thing to comment on in this manner in front of other people. It’s a passive aggressive way of bringing it up. You did make it personal, because you wouldn’t have bothered adding all the context to your post if it wasn’t relevant.

ultimately you and your partner need to have a frank discussion, but in front of family over Christmas wasn’t the right setting.

heyheyheyy · 25/12/2023 20:35

mamamanda · 25/12/2023 20:13

YABU. Your husband is working whilst you're a SAHM. If he quits his job and decides to be a SAHP to lessen your workload and support you as you wish, wouldn't you struggle financially?
Equally he could say that he's depressed, I'm sure he'd prefer to work less and it sounds like he's working hard. But what can he do? Would complaining and being depressed help?

OP said she works full time though so none of your post is relevant

MamaGhina · 25/12/2023 20:36

Giving the benefit of the doubt, I do think people forget over time just how hard it was.

My DH made a comment today about how we were lucky with our DC that they weren’t that ill when younger. Yes they bloody were! But it was me who did all
the dr’s appointments and getting the medicine and taking the time off work. Me!

In my case I don’t think it’s malicious. I think he actually can’t remember them being that ill because I did it all!

Loubelle70 · 25/12/2023 20:37

Hatty65 · 25/12/2023 18:54

I said that I think it takes a village to raise a child and that back in the day, mums used to have sisters and cousins and aunts and mums and grandmas who would be around much more to help raise that baby and that it's a more modern concept that a mum is basically just home alone all the time with a baby and no support network.

He's an utter arse and I'm not defending him in any way at all, but I think your view on how much help women got is extremely rose tinted. Women were very much tied to the house, alone and raising children. In my generation (60s) and my DMs generation (80s) to my deceased DGM I didn't know anyone who had people around that helped with the baby. You never got a babysitter, or a night out! If you had female relatives around who weren't out working then they were busy - cooking/cleaning/raising their own DC. I gave birth in the late 80s/early 90s and it was very lonely. I think it's a very modern concept that you might need help with a baby .

I'm not suggesting you don't, btw. I'm just saying that it's only fairly recently that PND is acknowledged or discussed.

My mother was born war baby..it was a village raises a child...family helped out apparantly. However my mum started having babies in the 60sband had minimal support...i had baby in 1990...only little support i had was from my mum..at a push. I was also alone with a baby , i was 17 and left to get on with it.
However i was/ am heavily involved with my grandkids and daughter...help and support when she needs it.

DeedlessIndeed · 25/12/2023 20:49

redcarl · 25/12/2023 19:45

I wasn't really making it personal though. Was just saying in general that it's good to have more paternity leave nowadays.

You may not have intended it to be personal, but clearly he has seen it as a slight. And TBH, I can see why he would. Your comment on lack of support does reflect on the support he provided.

I think you both are sensitive about the topic, and both taken the other person's general comment as being directed personally to you.

Perhaps you were a tad insensitive. He's been hurt by your comment, and responded by being an arse.

I think calm down, clear the air, both apologise and move on.

ChristmasFairyGodmother · 25/12/2023 20:52

What a jerk. He has zero right to have an opinion on postnatal depression other than as a supportive partner. No wonder you have struggled. I'm not sure I could get past this.

MrsKeats · 25/12/2023 22:26

So depression isn't real? That's just not true.
Your feelings are valid op.

Janieforever · 25/12/2023 22:42

It does read to me, like you made a point and he made one back. I guess it changed, since having kids. As in he didn’t work like this and you had support, from wider family, before ttc?

ArchetypalBusyMum · 25/12/2023 23:23

We are all just guessing at his tone of voice and yours, whether he was offended and retaliated, or was merely making a plain statement of fact as he saw it, let's face it, it can't be both and we're just speculating...

Personally, I was doing my best from the bottom of a deep pit when in the trenches after the kids were born. My DH was out the house from 7-7 five days a week, I was also studying, so weekend was for that while he took the kids. It was a long old slog for both of us, but especially me as I took the brunt of the sleep deprivation as he had long drives to do so lack of sleep was outright dangerous for him... And he had adult colleagues to communicate, only himself to manage while engaged in adult tasks while I had hours of crying and the repetitive mind numbing nature of baby care (mixed in with the moments of joy blablabla) and I rarely had any help.
I coped as best as anyone could under the circumstances, but after a long time of absolute slog and little respite, my sense of humour was a mere memory and I was pouring from a very very empty cup.
We talk about that time of our lives occasionally, and DH will agree, that objectively, I had the hardest time of it. However, I also recognise that his role has it's challenges and we recognise those too.
He will also acknowledge that he didn't support as well as he could, that with his life experience now he would do things a little differently. I recognise he did the best he could at the time with the knowledge he had. He says he couldn't have done what I did and would have cracked.

So, I think op, in a situation like yours the more you can avoid a 'who's got it worst' competition the more likely it is that no one needs to become defensive and both parties can have their serious issues acknowledged without fear of blame or recrimination coming into it.
But that healthy two way exchange of recognition and acknowledgement can only happen if both parties are willing to give credit where credit is due. Any dismissal of someone's lived experience or shutting down the conversation does nothing to alleviate the feeling of being unseen and irrelevant, does nothing to reflect on how both people feel about things and whether anything might be learnt from the teamwork dynamic at the time.
In my situation, things were said and done that didn't help at the time (as well as some good stuff too), but the air has been cleared on that, by both of us wanting to hear each other out. We both know if any other massive life challenges came along we would handle it better because we have considered the impact of the way out was done, both ways.
So with no point scoring and a willingness of both sides to really listen and no-one need feel resentful or dismissed... Conversely, anyone disinterested in how the offset they played affected things or giving credit and recognition where it's due and a rift will exist where good communication should be.

HolyZarquonsSingingSeals · 25/12/2023 23:27

Your 'village' model relies a lot on unpaid female labour and on the assumption that all women like spending time with babies and small children.

ArchetypalBusyMum · 25/12/2023 23:28

P.s I agree with you that when one single adult is in sole charge of raising/caring for babies/children with little other adult contact in their daily lives, for whatever reason, it's contrary to how we've evolved as a species and it's at the root of a lot of young child parenting misery. True for any generation.

Original poster
redcarl · 26/12/2023 08:28

I was also making the point that it's good there's more support and there should be as sometimes a mum can't just get on with it- if the depression is very severe and the mum needs hospital treatment for example because there is a psychotic episode happening. I know it's not that common, but it happens and is very sad. We watched a documentary about that and it's just devastating.

I was arguing women that are that unwell, can't get on with it. So it's good there's more support.

I also understand that the whole ' village ' raising the child thing is a rose tinted dream. I don't really mean that people would come round to help, but that because most families would still live together many many years ago ( I'm talking my grandmothers generation and before ), that there would be more company around. Not even really help, but just company. I think company really helps. But I know it's more complex than what I said but I do think that being very lonely can lead to becoming really down.

Anyway it would have been nice if he had just said that it's a positive thing for families to have more paternity leave.

OP posts:
HomiesAlone · 26/12/2023 08:33

You're right. He's wrong. You're not oversensitive. He's an ass. I bet he is a terrible partner and dad too but very charismatic and a great entertainer loved by all.

WhatNoRaisins · 26/12/2023 08:36

I'm not convinced that our current model of one mum against the world when it comes to raising children is a healthy one, it's just that some cope better with it than others. My mental health went to shit in lockdown when I couldn't pass some of the time with other mums and kids the same age.