To be shocked that over half a million people under the age of 35 are out of work due to long-term sickness

[puncheur]

I had no idea. These numbers are extraordinary. 560k people between the ages of 16 and 34 economically inactive due to long term illness.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/dec/24/500000-under-35s-out-of-work-long-term-illness-uk?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

I’d absolutely agree lots of genuine people, lots of pisstakers. Problem is drawing the line.!I was supervising a young man on community payback and he didn’t work. Told me he was only £40 a week better off in a full time job so claimed UC, smoked weed, did petty crime. Lots of mental health / drug issues nearby too. What’s the answer more carrot, better paid training opportunities, more stick?

I get UC myself so not in a position to judge but I work full time and am on decent money so I feel like I’m trying at least.

I also strongly suspect that mental health issues are linked to both parents being out at work all day.

However, I have noticed a very small but significant reversal in this, with more women staying at home with their children - probably because they have to work till they're 67 anyway so 5ish years out of the workplace won't make much difference to career prospects. Hopefully this will help to improve the mental health of our future generations.

How many of those are genuine cases? Impossible to know for certain however I strongly suspect the number is a lot lower than many may think.

We are creating an inadequate generation who often have unrealistic expectations. When they aren’t immediately met they look for a quick way out. There is no resilience or drive to better themselves.

Add into the mix a cultural shift whereby everything that is now wrong is invariably seen as the fault of just about anyone aside from the individual themselves and you inevitably end up with huge swathes of non contributing citizens.

I wonder whether there's inconsistency in the PIP assessments.

I have known so many people (2 dozen?) who seem so clearly unable to work through serious disability, but who have struggled to have this recognised, even at the appeal stage.

I know one person (well, knew until a couple of years ago) who was on PIP and I think should have been working part time. She turned up to get voluntary week with only a slightly above average number of sick days and ran a small business from home. Each time a psychiatrist suggested that paid work might benefit her mental health she refused to see them again. Honestly, I think she's more the victim in this because I agree with those psychiatrists. I knew her very well but could obviously nevertheless be completely wrong.

I have a similar condition to her. I haven't applied for PIP. my psychiatrist says she's fairly confident I'd be awarded it on appeal. I'm a SAHM. The extra money would be really useful, but I think I honestly could manage a job (part time at least). It would give me a far less happy lifestyle but I believe all households should look after themselves as far as possible, not least so they have some to share with people in need.

It seems narrow minded to dismiss all those describing skivers as thick right-wingers who are misinformed. And it seems equally narrow minded plus lacking in compassion to assume that those who are saying how incredibly hard it can be to get PIP are naïve. Maybe we all know different people... And so many people live in social bubbles.

I'm with you about the piss takers @jollywhite

A 26 yr old relative is on DLA and PIP for their "Autism". They have a blue badge too.

Having regularly looked after the relative for periods of time from birth, I would not support the ASC diagnosis.

The things they told the GP that put them on the spectrum are things that they found on the internet and exaggerated when asked by any professionals. School never supported them going forward for a diagnosis, as they didn't see it at all. They were only diagnosed aged 19.

Relative had a part time job for a few months. The company didn't make reasonable adjustments for their disability (aka refused to pay a full days wage for 10.30am-2pm days), so they decided work wasn't for them.

Back on the internet they went, and discovered how to be successful getting their PIP/DLA/Blue Badge claim through. They talked to a friend who worked for DWP about how to answer correctly to get the maximum amount. They've been on full benefits for four years now. They're married to someone on a £50k wage who has inherited a house.

I was disgusted to pop in for a Christmas drink last week and to hear them boasting about their brand new car, which I saw had a personalised number plate on my way out.

It made me so cross for all the money wasted on them opting out of a working life and being paid for it, for all the people who need DLA and get refused as they're too poorly to complete the forms and do as much prep for the interview as my relative did. I was also so very very cross that my tax was paying for it.

I decided I need to back away from them now. Their lifestyle choice has made me too cross.

The issue is no one is taught resilience at all. No one is taught or given the tools to navigate their way through a dark time or challenging part of life so that it does not manifest itself into a mental illness.
I speak as someone in their early 30’s who has gone through Anorexia and an 8 hour scoliosis operation as a teenager. The person who taught me resilience was of the eldest generation - I’m forever grateful to them. I hope I can pass what I’ve learned to my son; that whatever he struggles with as an adult won’t end in him being labelled with something or succumbing to a mental health disorder.

Mental health care has never been well funded or supported by the NHS so this explosion in difficulties is not directly linked to the level of funding and support available. The rise in cases has got to be due to societal issues such as poor prospects for young people and falling living standards, ie it’s a social issue not a medical issue.

We therefore need social solutions. Increasing the availability of therapy sessions is not going to solve this.

I'm guessing it's the need for both parents to work full time meaning long hours in wraparound care when young, vaccinations and general food health, cost of living meaning there is no incentive to work hard as you wont get a home and progress anyway. Along with illnesses such as covid giving long term physical issues and the lack of a responsive health system.

Vaccinations, you say?

the huge up swing on the graph since 2020 for "Hearing, seeing, allergies, epilepsy, autism"

Why would the pandemic result in this I wonder

Such plans pay out less than your usual income. That has always been the case and they are not cheap.

I’ve had to pay privately for my daughter in gynae and neurology in the end. At 28 she has had a hysterectomy due to neglect by the NHS in gaslighting her for 10 years. She firstly had several operations to remove debilitating endometriosis, then a hysterectomy to stop the constant periods and pain, she’d simply had enough.

Neurology wouldn’t see her as her symptoms didn’t fit their criteria. Yet when willing to pay we got the treatment we initially asked for. An MRI later she has a brain tumour, and upon actually seeing a neuro surgeon 9 months (the delay was due to lack of surgeons) after the MRI, he diagnosed another neurological illness and not fibromyalgia as advised by a G.P several years earlier.

She is now under a psychiatrist, privately again. She has complex PTSD due to the medical trauma she’s experienced.

All in all pretty fucking useless, her life for the past 10 years has been a nightmare of constant pain and wondering what the hell is happening to her body. She’s currently not able to work, waiting for a neurology appointment, god knows when it will be to deal with the latest diagnosis, unfortunately it’s only available within the NHS as a specialised service.

She has admitted to us that if we hadn’t been able to pay for a lot of her treatments she would no longer be here. After witnessing what she has been through I would never have believed that the NHS was in such a mess of disorganised chaos. Communication is the biggest failure, I’m exhausted constantly chasing people all the time.

All I can say is that if anyone has a child with mental health issues PschiatryUK has been amazing. The psychiatrist my daughter saw online has been fantastic, she is getting on with her medication and is waiting for trauma based counselling. It’s going to be a long road and not sure when she’ll be fit for work 🤷‍♀️

That’s bad. I feel like I’ve been quite lucky then( not having the pain itself) that was paralysing at its worst, but I did get basic physio, nerve blockers and in the end, injections into to spinal area ( I’m allergic to ibuprofen)
I did pay for a consultation with a physio who gave me some very good advice/ exercises.

I suspect that these numbers out of work will come down over time - anecdotally I know a lot of people who have taken breaks in their degree etc due to Long Covid so hopefully as people recover (and I know it will be a slow recovery) eventually they will be able to get back to normal life.

I agree, @Octavia64 , the pandemic derailed many teenagers and young adults, but going by the ppl I know IRL, they’re gradually getting back on track.

In terms of MH conditions, which have massively increased according to this article, I personally think that the milder and treatable forms of anxiety and depression (perhaps caused by the pandemic?) can seem overwhelming when you’re younger. You don’t know how you’ll ever recover. But many, many people suffer from lifelong anxiety and depression, and find that they can manage their conditions and have productive lives once they’ve found the right medication, for example.

I think workplaces themselves don't help. Constant restructuring/redundancies, uncertain WFH climate and no real support for flexible working. No wonder people struggle to stay in work.

Disability is actually social. The social model of disabilty. Yes we have impairments but we don't need to be disabled by these impairments.

@thatsnotmywean I am VERY disabled by the medical reality of my type 1 diabetes, actually. It isn't just social. There sure is a social element that is utter bullshit to deal with but it is so high handed to breezily dismiss the gravity of how certain disabilities destroy your body.

I have almost perfect diabetic numbers that doctors praise to the hilt.

It has still caused numerous issues with so many systems in my body. I am so tired. It is relentless. I have had it since childhood and there is no rest, no break from the daily struggle to stay alive both in the present moment and do damage limitation for the future.

The social model of disability only works if we hold space for the bodily and mental pain and exhaustion experienced by plenty of disabled people that will never go away even if we lived in a utopia for disability.

Lucky you if you don't understand this.

The government and NHS definitions of long term illness includes disabilities and any chronic conditions - its basically anything which doesn't have a cure. Most people with chronic conditions work using management protocols eg insulin for type 1 diabetes, statins or diet regimes for hypertension.

I'd be interested in seeing the original raw data on this because its not clear from the article if the original data says half a million "with' chronic conditions or half a million "because of" chronic conditions. Its also odd because ONS reports on employment typically classify "young" as 16-24, not 16-35 and half a million under 35 out of work due to chronic conditions does not match stats on unemployment.

It would be really useful if the Guardian linked to the source data rather than regurgitating headlines from a lobby group which itself doesn't make clear all the raw data in use - just its own analysis and abstractions.

It would be unsurprisingi if the ever lengthening waits for investigations and treatment of health problems delays return to work or full time work for some people but fudging numbers helps no-one other than lobby groups.
eg The questions about mental health - the causes, the levels of diagnosis, the waits for investigations all require different responses but I can find nothing in the report being reported to differentiate these and suggest strategies, just "we are all doomed".

It's a remarkably high number considering the steps made to design buildings for disability access, huge workplace initiatives for mental health access and awareness, flexible work arrangements and working from home employment options.
I'm sure there are many who could contribute some useful hours weekly with many of these workplaces initiatives in place.

Exactly @Neitheronethingnortheother

The disabled community included those of us who are chronically ill.

ToBeOrNotToBee - Well said, exactly what has happened to my daughter, it’s shameful. Endometriosis is such a debilitating condition, I should know, I’ve had it myself.

Absolutely, I've been back in work nearly 9 years now, working for 3 companies, every year there have been multiple re structures and redundancies

I know staff members who have had a real impact on their mental health as a result of the constant uncertainty as to whether their job will still be there in a few months, whether it will be the same job, whether they will have to reapply for it etc

And quite frankly people who get made redundant in their late 50s onwards often struggle to find the same work, or any work again even though they realistically need to be working for quite a lot longer, but businesses are no longer interested in hiring them

So it's all very well the government raising the pension age and creating a situation to force disabled people into work, but with no incentives to do so what business is going to take on Bob who is 61 over 30 year old, or John who needs money spending on him for reasonable adjustments over an able bodied person?

And even if the businesses do take them on, if they are made redundant will another company?

I get that businesses aren't charities and they need to do what they need to do to make their profits and keep their shareholders happy, but it creates an environment which is frankly hostile to a proportion of its potential workforce

It was considerably easier to access before the Tories got hold of it. There’s a difference between being difficult to access and effectively being non existent unless you are actively suicidal. And if you do manage to get it you’re most likely to get some IAPT/CBT therapists for a short period rather than access to CPNs, psychologists, CMHT.

I do think societal issues play a large part too, but don’t underestimate how difficult it is to access good, effective help these days.

I'm one of them. I have a brain injury among other physical health conditions. Is that OK with you or do you want me down the coal mines?

I'm just outside of that age group but I have Long Covid, can't get any help for it, and it has absolutely ruined my health. 😕

GP gave me a link to a long covid Web page and offered me antidepressants.

Please educate me someone..

These "pisstakers" that i know. Trust me i know loads. I'm not lying many of them are my mates, mutual acquaintances etc.

Is it conceivable that years ago it was easier, and they got on the wagon then and since then the evil tories got in power and made it impossible but that doesn't matter once you're in, you're in.

Don't you have to go for a yearly review or something like that?

The upswing will be largely due to autism. There is increasing awareness of the condition and many more young people are seeking and receiving diagnosis.

Like anything else a diagnosis may feel helpful but unfortunately they do tend to become self fulfilling. Once a person has a label there is a tendency to be restricted or confined by it.