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Original poster

I never look for offense, but "Do They Know its Christmas Tume" lyrics...

427 replies

SecondUsername4me · 23/12/2023 20:41

I mean, it's a bit iffy right?

And there won't be snow in Africa this Christmas time,The greatest gift they'll get this year is life

The whole of Africa?

Where the only water flowing, Is the bitter sting of tears

On the whole continent?

Well tonight thank God it's them instead of you

Err.....

OP posts:
Thread gallery
7
Rosebel · 24/12/2023 00:11

This song is from the 80s. I was 4 at the time, things were different and the general public really relied on what the media said, no Internet or anything .
The message is obvious and it wasn't supposed to be a nice song. It was to make you feel guilty and make you donate.
By the way if you find the song so offensive why don't you just not listen to it?

cakeorwine · 24/12/2023 00:14

Rosebel · 24/12/2023 00:11

This song is from the 80s. I was 4 at the time, things were different and the general public really relied on what the media said, no Internet or anything .
The message is obvious and it wasn't supposed to be a nice song. It was to make you feel guilty and make you donate.
By the way if you find the song so offensive why don't you just not listen to it?

We really could think for ourselves back then. I think some of us knew that there would be some people in Africa who knew it was Christmas and that water flowed.

We just didn't have social media to discuss it - so it was in the school playgrounds.

However - the intention was good. Despite the lyrics.

Stopsnowing · 24/12/2023 00:25

I heard a newer version which had a different line to ‘thank god it’s them’

it was written very fast to respond to a huge catastrophe and it came from the heart.

Luddite26 · 24/12/2023 00:26

The intention was well meant by Bob and Midge. I remember seeing it on the news the night they recorded it and all my favourite men filing into a studio together and it felt fabulous.i was 13. The intention was to help where politicians ignored.
Everyone who took part in band aid and live aid furthered their own careers - especially U2. All of this is well documented but on that Sunday morning in 1984 the best intentions of Bob and Midge was to save lives and to raise money for famine relief.
They felt they could not stand by and watch.

Ohnoooooooo · 24/12/2023 00:28

I am guessing you are a lot younger than me!!
For us who were around then - it was poetic irony to trigger people to feel guilty they had a better lifestyle and donate money.
ie ‘the thank God it is them instead of you’ was aimed at on people’s subconscious thoughts that when the saw the images of people starving that they were glad they were not the people starving so they donates money.
I am more concerned that a previous poster living in Africa at the time did see the donated money being spent

Yamatoosogani · 24/12/2023 00:36

TerrysNeapolitan · 23/12/2023 22:17

THIS. At the time the footage coming out of Ethiopia was absolutely shocking to the world and people were suffering hell on Earth there. It raised a lot of money. People just wanted to help. The single literally was put together with phone calls at the time. Stop over analysing everything.

Show quote history

My husband told me this:

Ethiopia is/was very productive agricultural country.

At that time Ethiopia was having a war with Somalia.

Ethiopian government had forced its farmers off the land and into the army.

The government of ethiopia (the derg) received lots of money from the Soviet union and were baddies.

Bob Grldof in naivety and shallow thinking gave the raised money to the Derg directly who pissed the money up a wall instead of helping the people.

Orangeandgold · 24/12/2023 00:40

I hate this song so much. As someone from Africa and hearing it as a young kid I always thought there was something so weird and “poor them” and “look at us having a great time” about it all.

They did try to remake a version with a few African artists and they all said no because it is offensive.

I understand that it was for its time. A little like rewatching shows from the 80s and 90s and realising we were liberal with what we said and offending people for the sake of “entertainment” was a norm.

But hey - it’s embedded in British culture - as are other behaviours - the good news is I can just change the channel when it comes on.

MrsTwatInAHat · 24/12/2023 00:48

I don’t mind the “them instead of you” line, I get that it’s sarcastic.

But I was a teenager in 1984 and even then I very much doubted Africa had no rain, rivers or plants. You don’t need a sustainable development degree to work that out. Even without the internet Geldof and Ure could and should have known that or checked it in less than a week. Yes they did it in a hurry for a good cause and that’s admirable but the song is embarrassingly clueless and patronising.

Imagine there was a famine in Greece or Spain and so some US pop stars wrote a charity single about how awful it is for Europeans because they have no rivers, rain or crops. At all. In the whole of Europe. And even worse, might not realise it’s Thanksgiving. Even in 1984, that would be mindblowingly ignorant and we certainly would have taken the piss!

And like OP I don’t actually look to take offence everywhere and really don’t like woke offence-seeking. I’m also not offended. I just think it’s a really bad song that perpetuates ridiculous stereotypes about Africa, and lots of us thought so back then too.

BombaySamphire · 24/12/2023 00:58

cakeorwine · 24/12/2023 00:08

An interesting view here

People shocked by 'Do they know it's Christmas' lyrics (joe.co.uk)

"Actress Kelechi Kelechnekoff had previously spoken on the topic in a lengthy Twitter thread.
“Well yes motherfuckers. We do know it’s Christmas due to a little thing called colonisation, we know more than we’d care to,” she said

Dr Asher Larmie further expanded on Rao’s point, noting that: “Feed the world is an extremely racist song that needs to be banned from radio play. There. I said it.
He continued: “And there won’t be snow in Africa this Christmas time. The greatest gift they’ll get this year is life. Where nothing ever grows. No rain nor rivers flow…’ Are you kidding me with this s**t? Do you own a map? There are seven major rivers in Africa.
“Nothing ever grows? Watch a wildlife documentary. There won’t be snow in England either. And I’m sure a lot of African kids will tell you the greatest gift they’ll get is a PlayStation 5.
“Because Africa is not a continent filled with mud huts and starving children. The fact that a group of white people wrote a song with lyrics like ‘Pray for the other ones’, ‘give a little help to the helpless’ and ‘feed the world’ is bad enough. Playing it all these years later?”

I don't know if there was a reaction to the lyrics back in 1984. But I do know that a lot of people bought the single in reaction to the intention behind the campaign.

Edited

Racist… Wtf?

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 24/12/2023 01:01

The intent was good but the lyrics were shit. I am old enough to remember band aid and live aid and it was a cultural phenomenon.

I do think that there is a perception that still prevails that Africa (the whole continent?) needs rescuing. DH is North African and his nephews and nieces are focusing on jobs, studies, consumer goods just like our DC. What’s more they get more snow than we do!!

StSwithinsDay · 24/12/2023 01:01

Even without the internet Geldof and Ure could and should have known that or checked it in less than a week.

The BBC lead with reports on the famine in Ethiopia for days. Maybe have a look at Michael Beurk's reports. Maybe he and the BBC should have known or checked too.

MrsTwatInAHat · 24/12/2023 01:10

The BBC lead with reports on the famine in Ethiopia for days. Maybe have a look at Michael Beurk's reports. Maybe he and the BBC should have known or checked too.

I saw them, I was there. Reporting on a famine in Ethiopia - a famine with complex political causes, not just a drought - does not mean you’re saying the whole of Africa has no rain or rivers and nothing grows there. Buerk and the BBC did not say that, the song did.

alwayscrashinginthesamecar1 · 24/12/2023 01:23

I was a teenager when the song came out. We all knew the lyrics were dodgy, but everyone had been so horrified by the Micheal Beurk reports from Ethiopia that we didn't care about the stupid lyrics. The record was a massive phenomenon, my mum worked in a record shop and people were coming in and buying dozens of copies, they couldn't keep it in stock! Like Live Aid, everyone was raising money and donating, people really wanted to help. Now in hindsight, we know that the money maybe didn't all go to the right people, and the song itself may have been damaging in other ways. Still, at the time it was a very powerful thing with the very best intentions, and it brought people together in a way to raise money which was unprecedented. So I think quibbling about the lyrics forty years later is completely missing the point!

Ninjasan · 24/12/2023 01:34

Let's not bother helping anyone again.

JanglingJack · 24/12/2023 01:34

I wrote a long post about Romesh Ranganathan visiting Ethiopia and how his guide was telling him people are pissed off being defined by the song still. It was a brilliant program, Ethiopia is so beautiful. Think it might have been BBC, I'd have to Google. Well worth a watch.

Then Mumsnet ate it.

Or something.

mantyzer · 24/12/2023 01:46

Some people at the time were wtf about it. They were told to be quiet because it was for a good cause.
If MN had existed there would have been fierce debate about it and probably bannings and splinter facebook groups.

clarepetal · 24/12/2023 02:47

Tygertiger · 23/12/2023 20:59

“Tonight thank God it’s them instead of you” is deliberately provocative. Bono didn’t want it at first as he thought, WTF? But Midge Ure pushed it back on him and said, when we’re all enjoying a nice time in our homes with family and lots of food and we’re all cosy and safe, and an awful story comes on the news, isn’t there a little dark part of your soul which is just glad that’s not you? You feel sad for five minutes then it’s back to the party? It’s meant to be challenging and uncomfortable.

The lines about snow are awful and cringey. But I think Bono’s line is really powerful when you see the intent.

This a thousand times.

ithinkthatmaybeimdreaming · 24/12/2023 04:33

43ontherocksporfavor · 23/12/2023 20:53

It was written at the time of famine in Ethiopia so everyone at the time( I was a teen) understood Africa to refer to that famine. ‘ Tonight thank god it’s them’ refers to thank god it’s them that’s getting help . It was a charity song that raised millions to help the Ethiopian people.What is wrong with you???

I agree. Every damn year a thread about this pops up on MN. It was a song to raise money, which it did, but every year we get the superior MNers among us whinging and whining about it.

Maybe make a new year resolution to grow up and find something really worth worrying about. Maybe go out and do some fundraising for a worthy cause yourselves - just a thought.

Dustybarn · 24/12/2023 05:04

I live in Africa and when it came out we were not offended. It was the usual clueless patronizing crap (which incidentally hasn’t changed in 40 years) but the intention to fundraise for a desperate cause was hugely appreciated. And as a PP points out, it was written in about 7 minutes. Agreed they should stop playing it but if anyone is dreadfully offended perhaps they can do a better fundraiser than Bob?

Snowonthebeachx · 24/12/2023 06:07

I know it sounds a bit joyless but I think it is significant the lyrics are dodgy. They show a very simplistic attitude to an actually complicated man made situation.

Didn't they find out lots of the money was used by the government to buy arms to fight against rebel groups ? The government who had caused the famine by forcing the people off the land in the first place.

I think we now understand that aid is more complex than just giving piles of money (not saying that people shouldn't try and help).

Southpoint · 24/12/2023 06:55

The song raised millions for the famine in Ethiopia. Did they think it was patronising?

eurochick · 24/12/2023 06:58

The lyrics are clunky but it is of its time. The news reports were full of the Ethiopian famine - pictures of pot bellied starving children in rags with dusty empty fields behind them. I can still recall the awful tv images now, 40 years on. So the song was wrong to refer to Africa as a whole but "nothing ever grows" was a reflection of the famine, as were the lines about water flowing.

It was done very quickly, it raised a significant amount of money. Put in its historical context, it was some pop stars coming together to do A Good Thing in a new way. And it worked.

Carmargo · 24/12/2023 07:49

Do you really think that Geldof (a real smart cookie) didn't realise that Africa was not just Ethiopia (or Ure too for that matter)?
Ffs! Of course they did!!

Geldof - whatever else you may think of him-is one smart fella.

And do you think that people who bought the record were also too dumb to realise that Africa was a great big continent consisting of many regions? Obviously you do.
But us oldies are dumb as f* obviously.

Or maybe we realised that Ethiopia is hard to fit lyrically and got the wider message.

OP, I doubt you're as smart as Geldof-few of us are.

Taking offence seems to be used as a mark of intellect these days.

ilovepixie · 24/12/2023 08:25

The song is nearly 40 years old, took you a long time to be offended!

YoullCatchYourDeathInTheFog · 24/12/2023 08:43

The song was written at speed to raise emergency funds for food aid in a famine - literally a "band aid" as the name suggests, rather than a long term investment. The very dodgy geography in the lyrics is probably forgivable in that context.

I do think that the use of the entire continent of Africa in the logo for Live Aid and the fact that the US version was called "USA for Africa" is less defensible. They had time to think about both choices, and the choices they made had negative consequences for the way that US and European public (and investors) saw the continent for decades to come. They could have done better.