I never look for offense, but "Do They Know its Christmas Tume" lyrics...

[SecondUsername4me]

I mean, it's a bit iffy right?

And there won't be snow in Africa this Christmas time,The greatest gift they'll get this year is life

The whole of Africa?

Where the only water flowing, Is the bitter sting of tears

On the whole continent?

Well tonight thank God it's them instead of you

Err.....

None of that means we can’t criticise the absolutely stupid and quite insulting song the pop start produced - and that we all lapped up for many years.

Or the actual saving famine victims narrative, which is really not accurate. See this from 1986: https://www.nytimes.com/1986/05/21/world/ethiopian-policies-blamed-in-famine.html

I think that’s kind of worse, if he wrote it in 5 minutes. Meh, everyone knows Africa is a dry snowless wasteland full of starving children. That was what came to him off the top of his head, showing his total ignorance, that he saw no problem with perpetuating to a massive audience.

I do understand he needed to write something quickly but that doesn’t mean he had to write patronising ignorant cliches, does it?

the crops have failed again
they’re desperate for rain

there you go I wrote some similar level doggerel off the top of my head in 30 secs without having to say there are no rivers, rain or plants in Africa!

I mean even saint Bob must have heard of the Nile, the world’s longest river?

I think there’s a big misunderstanding on the thread that people who object to the lyrics are being gen z snowflakes/offended by everything/have nothing going on in their lives that they can be so picky etc. It’s not that. It’s that we in the rest of the world misunderstand and misrepresent Africa and do it so casually, and so many people unthinkingly absorb those cliches, and think it’s fine. And while people are trying to counteract that, we have this stupid song wheeled out every year.

But maybe it’s one of those divisions where no matter how many posts, people will not get each other’s POV. I cannot get how you can hear the song and go “well it’s fine because it raised money” and not see the issues. So I guess I can’t really complain that some posters are calling me a snowflake.

I do wonder if any of the celebrities there had a word with Bob and pointed out what they knew about Africa?

In other news
The rhythm doesn't actually have to power to 'get you'.
Love is an emotion from within and isn't a 'force from above'.
Women are not a monolith and in fact I am not every woman. * Although this misconception explains a lot of the attitudes on Mumsnet.
The Russians do love their children too.
The stars are not yellow and do not shine only for you.
The good die at the same average age and frequency as the bad (including virtue signallers)

And yes, there will be snow on the mountainous regions of parts of Africa, the greatest gift some will get this year is likely an I phone, crops grow but are clearly at the mercy of climate, war and global warming.
Hth

It's a song from 40 years ago.

It was of its era.
Expressed a sentiment of the time.
And was well-meaning.

To go trawling through the past looking for ways to be offended is piss-poor way to live.

Well.exactly most lyrics to most songs when you pick them, apart are nonsense ,and they are not meant to an accurate representation.

You’ve misunderstood.

Yes that was kinda my point.
Perhaps we should have an opt in asterisks version of the song. It could add extra information for the terminally offended.
Eg
Normal version
Where nothing ever grows
No rain or rivers flow.

Offended version
Where nothing ever grows* to the extent to provide enough crops to feed the population in war torn, drought or climate change effected areas.
No rain or rivers flow* whilst the Nile is indeed a river in Africa, clean water remains an ongoing issue in some regions and now, as at the time, charities do work to help provide a ongoing clean source of water in areas that need it.

I'm in favour of doing it for all Christmas songs personally.

Mary's boy child Jesus Christ was born on Christmas day*

Whilst historical records tell us a man called Jesus existed, his birth is estimated to be in late September and claims of his godliness are so far unsubstituted by evidence.

I cannot get how you can hear the song and go “well it’s fine because it raised money” and not see the issues.

it’s estimated that at least half of the proceeds of live aid were diverted into buying weapons and funding civil war.

‘oh. Stop being so mean. It raised money for all those starving children’. Except that’s not quite what happened. The results do matter.

And we are in 2024 with radio stations playing a song that perpetuates dreadful stereotypes of Africa that self-appointed st bob geldof wrote on the bag of a fag packet. With people defunding his shit and complaining about woke snowflakes etc

I agree - next on my list would be Rudolph the Red Nose Reindeer - I can find no evidence of such a reindeer existing.

😂😂i always wondered about "Away in a manger"even in biblical times ,would a mother really put her precious new born to.sleep in a manger fulk.of mankey hay that the cattle ate going to want to eat?

And let's not get started on Santa getting stuck up a chimney!

Perfectly fine song. It was 1984 and people couldn't even locate Ethiopia on a map. As a 12 year old it really opened my eyes to suffering in the world, which otherwise I would never have given it a second thought. People forget what it was like and judge without context.

Really?
We had encyclopedias and maps in 1984.

It did open people's eyes to what was happening but stuff like "people couldn't locate Ethiopia on a map because it was 1984 " is patronising about what life was like in 1984

Not to not that - Rudolph is always depicted with antlers. But male reindeer shed their antlers in winter, which means that Rudolph, along with all the other crew, must be female so probably should have had a different name

What I always find a little jarring about these kinds of threads is the extent to which so many people are completely immune to any kind of literary device.

They actually invert the whole point of the "thank God it's them" line. They don't understand what the snow reference is meant to evoke (and yes it's a bit of poetic licence, but some of the greatest songs and poems use that same kind of technique to create contrast and mood.) They can't wrap their heads around the fact that in the context of news reports, people knew that the crises "in Africa" meant the famine in Ethiopia, and it didn't necessarily mean that they had no knowledge that Africa is quite a large and varied continent. (Though some people didn't really know much about it at all, which is also not a terrible thing, there are people like that all over the world who don't know much outside their day to day concerns.)

The one that really gets me is people who misunderstand "do they know it's Christmastime" which could equally be used about a song about a homeless person sleeping on the streets of London, and is in no way about Africans being stupid, nor is it a claim that there are no Christians in Africa.

I always wonder, how do these people function if they interpret the most basic metaphors or similes etc as meant to be completely straightforward comments?

I always wonder, how do these people function if they interpret the most basic metaphors or similes etc as meant to be completely straightforward comments?

it could be that something is going over your head. I doubt I can’t grasp the concept of a literary device, as I have an English degree and work in the book industry. Thinking this song is harmfully misleading and patronising doesn’t mean I take all song lyrics at face value. If you can’t see the difference between this and clearly fictional or religious lyrics - it’s you who lacks understanding.

But hey well done Sir Bob for both writing it in 5 mins a taxi so who cares if it’s nonsense, AND creating a “literary” work too complex for poor snowflakes to understand. Amazing.

I have to say that as a teen in 1984, I didn’t ’get it’. I understood the grace of God saying but I didn’t like the ‘thank God it’s them’ sentiment. ‘Thank God you are well-fed and safe’, or ‘thank God you don’t suffer’, I would have got, but I couldn’t imagine ‘thanking God’ that someone else was suffering. I just took the line at face value then.

i think if so many people ‘misunderstood’ it, then it missed the mark a bit. Understandable though perhaps, given the time frame.

Once you have raised millions, by motivating the best part of the pop music elite of the time to a coordinated effort, and actually done something with the pure intention to just try and help those in a terrible situation, (however the money may have been spent) you might, just might, be in a position to criticise. Until then, pipe down, you are trying to virtue signal about how “culturally sensitive” you are, but coming across as crashingly naive and self absorbed. Criticising a song from a time you clearly don’t understand, that started a movement of charity does not make you look like a good person.

Bob Geldoff was at the end of his patience when this was written, he knew people were dying and every day counted. The lyrics are scathingly sarcastic of the listener and the traditional, pretty “Christmas card” tropes, bells, snow, gifts, raising glasses, thanking God for sending his son to us - which are fired back at us, because none of this was relevant to Ethiopia at the time. It is meant to be uncomfortable to hear, he even takes the piss directly saying “it’s hard . . when you’re having fun” to step up the contrast and the guilt so that people would give money. I don’t think you have understood the time it was written in or the intent. If you want a bland Christmas jingle there are plenty of other songs out there.

@JustEnoughPlates given it sold how many... 3.8 million copies? I doubt people did misunderstand. Much like the line it's a sentiment.

I honestly thought... and I was a child... it meant 'there for the grace of god go i'.
It's a powerful sentiment and not meant to be taken literally. A sort of expectance that it could be any one of us.

Wasn't it written very quickly in a taxi or something? The lyrics are a bit clumsy, but I think well-intentioned, and it raised a lot of money and awareness.

''@Qwerty556

It's a song from 40 years ago.

It was of its era.
Expressed a sentiment of the time.
And was well-meaning.

To go trawling through the past looking for ways to be offended is piss-poor way to live.''

Exactly.

I often wonder what the people doing this are trying to achieve.

What's the end goal here? to get the song banned? to get an apology from Geldof?

How would that benefit anyone? would that make the lives of people who live in Africa suddenly better?

What a waste of time and energy.

Better to focus on things that actually matter and make an actual difference to people's lives today and avoid being one of the tedious, self-righteous 'professionally offended' who complaint a lot but achieve very little ...

It's possible to acknowledge it was well-intentioned and raised millions whilst also accepting that it's a shit song with elements of it being at best naive and at worst verging on harmful.

It's just a song. It's not some holy grail exempt from criticism.

Exactly.

It's not some binary divide between saying it raised money for charity so forget the words versus it must be banned.

It raised lots of money. It raised awareness. It was for a good cause.

There are people who have a whole issue with Band Aid and "white saviour" syndrome. Who think the lyrics were patronising.

And there were people in 1984 who were more than aware about Africa and understood that the lyrics were inappropriate.

But yes - it was done for the right reasons and it did raise a lot of money.

Of course, Bob Geldof has his views. A nurse from Sierra Leone criticised the EBola version

Ebola survivor Will Pooley calls Band Aid 'cringeworthy cultural ignorance' | Band Aid 30 | The Guardian

“It’s Africa, not another planet,” Pooley told the Radio Times. “Stuff about Do They Know It’s Christmas? It’s just like, actually people live normal lives here and do normal things. That sort of cultural ignorance is a bit cringeworthy. There’s a lyric about ‘death in every tear,’ it’s just a bit much.”

Pooley made his comments from Sierra Leone, where he has returned to continue his work following his successful recovery from the disease. Asked if he had a message for people back in Britain, he said: “I would say that it’s a good idea to read as much as you can about what’s going on in west Africa, and if you feel so inclined then donate some money to one of the charities, like King’s, that are working out here, directly caring for Ebola patients.”
Others have also labelled the single insensitive. Emeli Sande said that “a whole new song is required”, while Fuse ODG, writing for the Guardian, said he was “shocked and appalled” by the lyrics and pulled out of the recording as a result. “I, like many others, am sick of the whole concept of Africa – a resource-rich continent with unbridled potential – always being seen as diseased, infested and poverty-stricken.”

Geldof has been nonchalant about the criticism, telling the BBC: “Where Band Aid is effective is that it creates all this noise. It creates this argument, it creates this debate. People find it very hard to understand that I love the level of criticism. I personally enjoy it.”
When asked by the Telegraph for a response to Pooley’s comments, Geldof said: “Please. It’s a pop song. Relax,” before saying that critics of the song could “fuck off ... I couldn’t give a toss ... If it’s a pop song that can help ease the pain, the agony, if they can die with a little more dignity then, yeah, I’m there. It’s pretty simple.”