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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to think the new rules on no fault eviction - means people won't want to be landlords?

267 replies

DragonMama3 · 22/12/2023 19:31

What do you think?

OP posts:
App13 · 23/12/2023 19:05

WillowCraft · 22/12/2023 21:36

Rented homes and owned homes are two separate (although linked) markets. If supply increases and demand remains the same, prices drop. That applies equally in either market, unless the government controls rents or meddles in house prices

As they are separate markets as you rightly point out... demand will overshoot by a sizeable amount, supply will fall for the rental market. And the price will rise to a point that will price those the most needy out of the market. At micro local levels the equilibrium will be reached where supply =demand and anyone that cant afford it will be displaced (made homeless, or move away).
Just because supply of homes increase due to landlords selling up, doesnt mean the renters will be the end beneficiaries. The price may drop but will be buoyed by those that want to and can buy.

Paradise404 · 23/12/2023 19:18

CoatOfArms · 23/12/2023 17:33

YANBU.

There is a massive problem with student accommodation in the private sector in Glasgow because the Scottish government have changed the law so much in favour of the tenant. Landlords aren't interested in renting to people for 9 months or a year, knowing they have no power to get them out at the end of the agreement if they choose not to go.

There are lots of people who do not want to own a home for all manner of reasons - students, people working on a 1-year or other short term contract, people sussing out an area before committing to buy etc etc.

Au contraire students/short-term contracts are better as the tenant is guaranteed to go, churn is the downside of course but renting to students, HMO year after year it's profitable hence why so many family homes have converted to HMO.
'Long-term' tenants are harder, especially if you keep the rent below market rate. It might be difficult for them to afford anywhere else.
However if they've been good tenants for a long while you have benefited from the stability worth the wait IMO.

Even though I might be in this situation I can see the tenant POV. Not their fault the council won't house them until they've been thrown out on their ear.

ZiriForGood · 23/12/2023 20:01

DragonMama3 · 23/12/2023 17:28

My family have been landlords since 1850.

So your family hoards properties for 1,5 centuries and your predecessors got them for peanuts from today's point of view. No wonder you defend the status quo, because the current system protects your inherited privilege.

Musntapplecrumble · 23/12/2023 20:24

As a landlord all my tenants are happy, they have made their homes, they ring me when they need anything sorting, I'm fair to them and expect the same in return. I've had a few that have just upped and left, leaving me all their rubbish etc to deal with and a house to get back to letting standards. I'm really not a parasite! However, we seem to be getting penalised more and more and in some cases it's just not a viable business. And eg if a mortgage is coming to an end and I need to sell a property - this would be a no fault eviction. I would give my tenant as much notice as possible but at the end of the day I need to sell. So if this avenue is going to be taken away, what would I do if the mortgage is coming to an end/renewal and I can't afford it? What else can I do? This is a huge fear that will surely put people off being a landlord!

LumiB · 23/12/2023 20:39

ZiriForGood · 23/12/2023 20:01

So your family hoards properties for 1,5 centuries and your predecessors got them for peanuts from today's point of view. No wonder you defend the status quo, because the current system protects your inherited privilege.

Wow your jealousy just oozes from your comment. They haven't hoarded properties its been passed down generations which is still legal as far as I know. Omif you own a property are you going to insist its sold when you die and not passed onto your children if you have any? The poster said her mother doesn't even charge the going rate she is clearly a decent landlord.

CapitalKnockers · 23/12/2023 20:55

I sold my rental house this year after 5 years of letting it out (I moved in with my partner but kept my place). Over that time it just became far too expensive to run, I never made a profit, just enough to pay the mortgage and a small amount so I had a pot for maintenance. When I tried to sell up, nobody was interested in buying with tenants in situ, then when I served notice on the tenants so I could sell it empty they refused to move and I had to go via court then get the bailiffs in. It was horrible for everyone.

House eventually sold...to a couple moving out of London. A house gone from the rental market. If I could have made ends meet I would have stayed as a landlord. But I couldn't.

Most landlords I've met don't deserve the vitriol they get.

ZiriForGood · 23/12/2023 21:39

LumiB · 23/12/2023 20:39

Wow your jealousy just oozes from your comment. They haven't hoarded properties its been passed down generations which is still legal as far as I know. Omif you own a property are you going to insist its sold when you die and not passed onto your children if you have any? The poster said her mother doesn't even charge the going rate she is clearly a decent landlord.

I am not jealous. I work, I earn money and I bought my home (not so long ago).

I just don't see renting places out for generations as any kind of virtue - it is a situation enabled by post-feudal concept of land ownership. And the main reason why the ownership is respected is the society. Those who are inheriting should be grateful and pay relevant inheritance taxes and so on, because they benefit the most from the current society setup.

Xenia · 23/12/2023 21:49

One reason people like our Western democracies is that you can own property (unlike under socialism) and subject to inheritance tax can pass it down to children just as you can pass on your genes and in a sense the way you brought them up. Passing on property is not a moral wrong unless you have a standpoint which is fairly communist. It is instead why our society is fairly stable.

The student issue is a problem in England if laws are changed - I saw a Sky news on it today - because if the student landlords have no guarantee students will leave under the new system (or they leave sooner than the 12 month tenancy) it just does not work in the student market. I hope an exception can be made for it for the sake of students.

LumiB · 23/12/2023 21:53

You aren't even making sense, a property or properties are passed on down generayios you don't know the whole history whether all of them were rented or some where lived in by family etc. You just made a massive assumption and accused them of hoarding properties. If you weren't jealous or bitter you wouldn't have.

I look forward to you not passing on your property to your children otherwise you will be what u accused them for doing hoarding property.

ChallahPlaiter · 23/12/2023 22:10

Yes you’re absolutely right. I think working in cities can sometimes skew your view and it can seem as though everywhere is in desperate crisis - of course that doesn’t apply across the board.

ZiriForGood · 23/12/2023 22:13

LumiB · 23/12/2023 21:53

You aren't even making sense, a property or properties are passed on down generayios you don't know the whole history whether all of them were rented or some where lived in by family etc. You just made a massive assumption and accused them of hoarding properties. If you weren't jealous or bitter you wouldn't have.

I look forward to you not passing on your property to your children otherwise you will be what u accused them for doing hoarding property.

Yes, when the OP says that their family has been landlords since 1850, I made an assumption they were renting properties out. Do you have any alternative theory?

I am not totally against private ownership as a concept. I'm just saying, that the owners are massively benefiting from the current social setup and I want owners to fairly contribute to the society which first and foremost protects our ownership.

LumiB · 23/12/2023 22:47

ZiriForGood · 23/12/2023 22:13

Yes, when the OP says that their family has been landlords since 1850, I made an assumption they were renting properties out. Do you have any alternative theory?

I am not totally against private ownership as a concept. I'm just saying, that the owners are massively benefiting from the current social setup and I want owners to fairly contribute to the society which first and foremost protects our ownership.

Well you ignored the whole part where she said her mother who currently owns them isn't even renting them at market rate because she understands the hardship right now. But instead of actually reading that and seeing that they are clearly good landlords you just glossed over it and preferred to just drag em down like they are awful people

Lovepeaceunderstanding · 23/12/2023 22:51

brainworms · 22/12/2023 19:32

Landlords are parasites.

@brainworms WOW! That’s some statement. Would you be kind enough to explain/expand?

Lovepeaceunderstanding · 23/12/2023 22:53

sprigatito · 22/12/2023 19:33

I think if people don't want to be the sort of landlord who can support decent treatment of tenants, then they probably shouldn't be landlords.

@sprigatito , I am a landlord and I completely agree with you.

Lovepeaceunderstanding · 23/12/2023 23:12

LadyGrinningSoul85 · 22/12/2023 19:45

Exactly this.
I lost my home of almost 9 years this year, just like that.
Because my landlord cottoned on that he could make more on it as a student property.
Myself and my children were suddenly homeless.

We've found somewhere else eventually, but it's turned our lives upside down.
Miles away from family, uprooted kids to different schools.

It's ridiculous that landlords have that sort of power over people's lives.
I won't write on here what I want to happen to my scumbag of an ex landlord, or my comment will disappear.

Edited

I am sorry you have found yourself in this situation. I am a landlord, I feel a great responsibility to make sure my properties are in very good condition. I promise you I treat my tenants well. Very well. But my husband and I purchased our properties during our working lives. We made many sacrifices to do so, they are our pension and as such a business. I know there are rogue landlords out there but there are also decent people.

ZiriForGood · 23/12/2023 23:25

LumiB · 23/12/2023 22:47

Well you ignored the whole part where she said her mother who currently owns them isn't even renting them at market rate because she understands the hardship right now. But instead of actually reading that and seeing that they are clearly good landlords you just glossed over it and preferred to just drag em down like they are awful people

I did read it. I just don't see it as a virtue or something to boast about.

Market prices are that high because the society and politics made them that high. It is just another part of the same story where current social setup disproportionately benefits owners.

LumiB · 24/12/2023 07:27

ZiriForGood · 23/12/2023 23:25

I did read it. I just don't see it as a virtue or something to boast about.

Market prices are that high because the society and politics made them that high. It is just another part of the same story where current social setup disproportionately benefits owners.

Seriously. Okay wait until its mostly corproations who are landlords who will have no empathy, they won't say oh hey its hard times lets not raise the rent like that posters mum has done. They won't give a fig. And before you say it won't happen it already is, my company is doing it, two major banks announced they are going to doing it, one supermarket has announced the same.

Then you will really have something to be mad about.

Goodlard · 24/12/2023 07:29

brainworms · 22/12/2023 19:32

Landlords are parasites.

What an unhelpful contribution!

Goodlard · 24/12/2023 07:31

Iminpatchinghell · 22/12/2023 19:38

The standards councils and housing associations are held to should be the same for private landlords. So many private landlords don’t treat tenants fairly.
Could it help bring house prices down if private landlords aren’t buying the cheaper properties? I reckon so.
I’m not demonising private landlords, I just think it shouldn’t be something you do to make a good percentage on an investment. It should be something you take seriously as career. It’s peoples lives.

Edited

You seriously think councils are held to high standards? I think you'll find the reasons the grenfell fire escalated so quickly was due to problems not being dealt with.

Gettingcolder · 24/12/2023 07:52

I lived overseas for a while and had to rent a property and I was shocked at the high prices of rental and poor state of the properties compared to the UK. Then someone explained to me properly how it worked and saw things in a different light.

In that country there was long-term security of tenure along with strict rent control (providing the rent was paid and the place kept in reasonable condition). Most people rented for life so when they were young they struggled with high rents, the tenants were responsible for all repairs so they also had to gradually do up their rented properties - new kitchens, bathrooms, flooring etc. The rent didn't go up by very much over their lifetimes and so by the time they retired, inflation meant that their rents were low and they had done most of the improvements they wanted to the property.

It worked well and provided stability to tenants. People moved much less and not many people needed to buy. There was very little state-owned property as it wasn't required, other than for an unfortunate few who were never able to work.

From the landlord's point of view, there was stability of tenants, but the only real opportunity to increase rent was between those tenants. Selling properties with tenants in situ was possible but the values were lower. Landlords were in it for the long-term as there were no short-term gains to be made.

Musntapplecrumble · 24/12/2023 10:57

The Gov is constantly making it harder and less fair for LLs tbh. Lots of councils have now/want to introduce licensing (as a money-making exercise in truth); the bad LLs prob won't bother getting the licence anyway, so yet another reason for the good uns to leave the Private Rental Sector...

Iminpatchinghell · 24/12/2023 11:32

Goodlard · 24/12/2023 07:31

You seriously think councils are held to high standards? I think you'll find the reasons the grenfell fire escalated so quickly was due to problems not being dealt with.

@Goodlard cant actually see where I said ‘high standards’ in my original post, so I’m not sure where you’ve got that from.
Councils and housing associations have complaints procedures, service level agreements and reputations to worry about. Yes, I believe that’s a different standard to private landlords but I don’t think it’s high enough or there wouldn’t be tenants living with vermin, damp and mould, fire hazards, anti-social behaviour, the list goes on.
Some private landlords are great, some aren’t. My point was that plenty of people do it to make money on their spare cash, it should be taken more seriously than that.

Tatumm · 24/12/2023 11:42

In the Guardian today: https://www.theguardian.com/money/2023/dec/24/evictions-in-uk-hit-record-high-but-less-than-1-of-landlords-convicted

I’d like to see much greater resources and massive fines / criminal records for bad landlords. Licensing should be compulsory. I used to rent when I was young and even the better landlords were all about the money at the end of the day. An essential need should not be down to the whims of people seeking to invest.

Illegal evictions in UK hit record high, but less than 1% of landlords convicted

Tenants are often thrown out and their possessions stolen in ‘the most brutal of robberies’

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2023/dec/24/evictions-in-uk-hit-record-high-but-less-than-1-of-landlords-convicted

RAFOfficer · 24/12/2023 12:03

Licenses are already a thing for HMOs, although all it means really is that the council has the floor plans, proof of gas/electric safety inspections, and details of the landlord and property manager if there is one. When I first applied for mine they sent someone round to look at the property and make sure it met all the legal requirements around fire safety etc, but they haven’t done that for subsequent renewals. That aspect at least would be good for ensuring tenants were getting a decent, safe place to live.

However, I suspect that the slum landlords who couldn’t get a licence would still find desperate people to rent to…

SOxon · 24/12/2023 14:24

South Oxfordshire DC which does not include the horseshoe of Oxford, Reading
or Aylesbury,
has for weeks now been experiencing Uprecedented Demand for homes,
warning of lengthy processing times, shortage of dwellings although SOHA, the
HA builds new housing fast as it can.

The main towns are Didcot, where demand is high, Thame, Wallingford, Henley on Thames, then villages and hamlets.

These are not towns required to absorb sudden influxes of refugees, there are no homeless in doorways, no new industry to warrant instant housing requirements
or property exchange. Property to rent privately is sparse and at a premium.