to think that British coffee is just as good as Australian?

[EmmaGrundyForPM]

DNiece has arrived at ours, she's visiting from Australia and I haven't seen her for 5 years, since she was 15.

She's been in the UK for a few days and keeps banging on about how British coffee is horrible and not a patch on Australian coffee. Her dad, my BIL, always says this when he's in the UK but I'm not convinced it's true. I've only been to Australia once, but I wasn't blown away by their amazing coffee. I think DN is just parroting her dad and wouldn't be able to tell the difference in a blind taste test.

So, I think I'm not being unreasonable. Anyone agree?

There is remarkable coffee here and especially since the last decade. The kiwis exported it here and left the footprint.

There is only so far a good coffee can go. And certainly in the city of London we have the pick of the best.

I personally like Notes, who do a stellar matcha latte as well. But im sure there are still better independents out there!

My aussie mates no longer complain about the coffee when they come to visit,I think that says it all

That's exactly what I do! I have a dinky little whisk to froth the milk, too, and always use freshly ground beans.

We had an Italian neighbour when I was a kid, she made great coffee in a stovetop pot and showed my dad how to do it, and I've never found a better way of making good coffee at home (well, not without buying expensive kit).

I'm mostly a tea drinker though.

Britain does not grow coffee, there is no "british coffee"

how do you know OP lives in London?

OP I think it's one of things where people refer to old sterotypes that are no longer relevant - 20 years ago when cafe/coffee culture was a big thing in Aus but not so much here there probably was a huge difference between what you could easily get here, and the very bog standard/minimum options coffee most places would have been serving up in the UK. But now as a PP said if you're comparing like for like (i.e a specialist hipper coffee shop in Brisbane compared to a specialist hipster coffee shop in Manchester) then I doubt there's much difference. If you go in expecting something to be inferior your mind will automatically lead you to that conclusion.

Like the way Americans reiterate that Brits all have bad teeth, because the GIs who came over in the war all told them that (because we probably did at the time). Whereas we actually have better teeth on average now because of the NHS https://dentistry.co.uk/2016/01/06/english-have-better-teeth-than-americans/
Or at least we did...it's probably very likely to change soon if it hasn't already now it's impossible to find an NHS dentist.

I do the same (having watched many YouTube videos...😄) and feel the outside of the jug for the correct temperature. Maybe barista jobs are valued more in Australia and they provide better training or something. I find I can make a better coffee now that most places I go to because I can make it just how I like it.

FFS, did you read the whole thread?

@easylikeasundaymorn I think you're right.

It's not so much the type of coffee, although that of course does matter, but the way it's made. Coffee is a serious business in Australia and NZ and people drink much more coffee than tea, so I suspect OP's DN is correct.

@cardibach not saying they invented milky coffee. Cappuccino, latte and macchiato obviously very Italian milky coffees.

But the style of flat white apparently invented in the 80s, though I didn't realise there was debate over whether it was Aus or NZ they invented it, very interesting!

What are you talking about?! Compared to?
Maybe it's the water? London water is horrible.

Having lived in Australia and NZ I can add that they are obsessed with their coffee and like it made with absolute precision and I have to say it always was delicious in cafes

There's loads of very good coffee in the UK but it's far from the standard.

There's more high quality coffee, readily found, in most places in Australia that I've been

I'm a Brit but with relatives in Australia who I've visited fairly often. And yep, sorry. The gap might not be quite as big as it used to be (they were streets ahead in quality until the UK started to see 'real coffee' as a real option). But in most places it's still better. I particularly prefer their long black to our Americano. Not as much water and as strong if not stronger, but not bitter.

And of course the flat white came to us via Australia. It's been their normal white coffee for several decades.

She’s possibly correct, but also sounds a bit insufferable. I’d be tempted to trick her somehow, but that’s just me.

Flat white is a NZ invention.

No, she's not insufferable, she's adorable. But I think she's parroting something she's heard people say rather than really believing it.

When I was in Australia loads of people kept telling me that it rains every day in the UK, even though they'd never been there. Even when I showed them it rains less in Cambridge than Sydney they still wouldn't accept it. I guess we all have stereotypes and generalisations about other countries. I think the coffee thing may be one of those.

She's also adamant that the Australian men's cricket team is better than the England one, which I'm certainly not arguing with!

It definitely rains more in volume in sydney - it’s just that it seems to do it over many fewer days!

Yes, Sydney averages 131 days, Cambridge 165, Cardiff 197. The UK has more rainy days that you can actually go out in.

It’s funny, having lived in both now - in Sydney we seem much more likely to get rain overnight or in the early evening, after a hot day. Don’t seem to get these drizzly days very often at all. It’s either raining hard or it’s not raining.
You can still go out in the Sydney rain though! My kids love running around in it, or splashing through huge puddles.

Im not convinced uk or Australia are particularly renowned for their coffee. But everyone thinks they x is better than someone else's.

I'm Australian and on the whole I agree with your niece!

To be fair, I have lived here over 15 years and there are a lot of good independent coffee shops now in the UK that didn't exist when I arrived here. Coffee was mainly instant, or costa/Starbucks etc. Even the cafe at melbourne Airport used to be better than British coffee (I know because I would head to it immediately when visiting home!)

I don't think it's that aussies have inherently better coffee beans or anything- but a good coffee does need to be made with some skill. The one button Starbucks machine that inevitably turns out burnt mud water is not it.

Melbourne City and the entire country of Italy are the only two places on the planet where Starbucks had to close down outlets rather than expand.

Having lived in Melbourne for 10 years (5 of those spent as a barista) and having lived in SE England for one year I think it's fair to say that basically every coffee in Melbourne is pretty reliable but a bit more hit-and-miss in the places I tried in SE England.

The beans and milk are the same but the technique varies.

Still incredibly rude to say something like that in real life though, just order an espresso (difficult to get wrong) and shut up.

(Typo edit)

To be fair I criticised their horrible tea when I was there..... they are very into and knowledgable about coffee too

Best coffees I've had were in Sweden and Denmark-I do wonder if it was the water or brand of milk etc-managed to be smooth and mellow but quite strong too

I am a Melbournian but have lived in London for the past 20 odd years. Coffee is pretty much universally good at home - even in the outer regions - I was delighted to find a very decent soy cappuccino 17 years ago in rural northern Victoria. When I moved to London, coffee was just horrible. But in the last 15 years little independant places have popped up that are on par. I guess it is the way they are made and perhaps how places roast their beans.

I mean the costs/starbucks coffees are horrid. Starbucks never really took hold in Australia. I remember working in the City and the boards outside Costa etc (I think it was Costa then) used to say Australian trained baristas. Particularly in Melbourne, we had a lots of Italian immigrants who I guess also brought their own coffee culture. I do remember my Mum getting very foamy cappuccinos from the Kmart cafe 45 odd years ago!