13yo has had no interaction with opposite sex

[MissChristmasChild]

I am the youngest of 3 siblings. We are all married and my siblings have children. Brother has 2 girls, aged 14 and 6. Bro and SIL are very opinionated and I don’t see them often. Sister and BIL have two boys, aged 4 and 18 month old. BIL is relaxed and I see them often.

We have all gathered for the annual pre-Christmas do at my parents.

Today at lunch, my brother complained our sister’s boys are too noisy, badly behaved. Thinking he was overreacting, I made remark about how my brother must have seen the same behaviour in his daughters’ male friends or his own mates’ sons.

My 14 yo niece replied that she has no male friends, and never has. She has been in a single sex school since she was 4 and all her school friends only have sisters. My brother has a group of friends they regularly meet up with who only have daughters. The girls’ extra activities (drama, music swimming) have been mainly with their school friends so few boys there. Neighbours have boys but my brother doesn’t like any of the parents / kids so they don’t interact. They see the odd friend with boys younger than her once every few months or so, but for her whole life, my 14yo niece has never had any meaningful interactions with boys her own age.

I am taken aback. I’m all for single sex education, but how will so little contact with peers from the opposite sex prepare her for the real world where males exist? She is shy and a little awkward, but wants to go to university and wants a big career.

I didn’t reply but my face has clearly given something away as brother is hounding me to share what is bothering me. How do I tell him the truth without coming across as a know it all? Sorry if the above comes across a bit confusing or judgy. Am
I unreasonable to have concerns?

This was 100% me growing up and I'm totally fine now.

When you look at the statistics for "how boys do" in a single sex school, the results are always lower because there are no girl statistics to boost the results. This doesn't mean they do "worse" in an all-boy environment. The boys in mixed sex schools could have the same results but results aren't separated out by sex in their stats.

There are lots of things people have to learn to do in workplaces that they had never experienced before.

And I am not aware of any research or evidence to support the assertion that women who attended single sex schools are more likely to end up in abusive relationships as adults than women who attended mixed sex schools.

Besides which, you're assuming she's straight. Maybe she'll grow up and marry a woman.

Plenty of people go to single sex schools. It isn't that unusual.

It doesn't seem to do any harm

She might also have majority female workplaces. That can happen even in fields that statistically are male dominated.

I have three sons, no daughters. The eldest went to a Boy's grammar school. Between the age of 11 and 16 he had very little interaction with girls.
As a late teen/young adult, he's had girlfriends & even more importantly in my opinion, some good female friends.
So his male dominated early teen years didn't stop him at all from forging positive, mutually respectful relationships with girls/young women.

@Vitriolinsanity neither are generalisations.

One is a researched fact and one is my own experience as a young teen. And not just mine. Plenty of girls complain about sexual harassment and abuse at schools.

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201617/cmselect/cmwomeq/91/9105.htm

It's really not a big deal. Our son is an only child, we have no close family, so he has no cousins, nieces nor nephews. He went to a boy's secondary school. Other than at primary, he had no "school" nor "family" contact with girls. We often wondered if it would be a problem for him. As it turned out, not a problem at all. He went to Uni and shared a mixed flat of 4 girls/4 boys in the first year - he got on with all the girls far better than the boys. The girls "invited" him to share with them in years 2 and 3 (they didn't invite the boys) so he was in a flat for years 2 and 3 as the only boy in a house full of girls. Now he's started his first "proper" graduate job - surrounded at work by women of varying ages from other graduates up to middle aged women, with whom he goes socialising, i.e. pub quiz nights, after work drinks, etc. He spends more time with females than he does with males. By all accounts they get on great. He's respectful so that's probably why the females like him - he's certainly not an arrogant "alpha male" type. I really think some people make a mountain out of a mole hill when it comes to lack of opposite sex siblings, single sex schools, etc.

I had no male friends at that age. I prefer spending time with women, even as an adult. I have one (gay) male friend and that's it. I don't see what the issue is. I'm not shy around men and I've had relationships.

@MissChristmasChild those girls will run rampant when they get to uni!!! freedom!

It may have the opposite effect and result in her being more independent and not feel the need for male validation.

Girls do better in single sex schools. The amount of harassment that girls endure at mixed sex schools is off the scale and its a very serious problem. Had I my time over I would have sent my girls to a single sex school but there wasn't one close enough.
I am an ex-teacher btw.

Do you know a lot of teen boys nowadays? What do you think she’s missing out on exactly?

More or less the same, here. No problems with boys when I started encountering them in my late teens, had a couple of serious boyfriends at the expected times, happily married for 20 years now too.

Honestly don't see a problem.

Nonsense.

The research is all over the place and doesn’t account for years of girls and boys being treated as different species by teachers and parents alike. Historical and enforced gender stereotypes surely have an impact.

I think things will start to change as boys and girls are allowed to express themselves in more ways than just the ways they’re expected to based on their sex. Not that I don’t believe there is a difference between boys and girls, there definitely is. But I do think stereotypes impact the way people treat them and therefore how they progress at school. Once boys feel confident socially choosing dance over science and girls feel the opposite then things can start to progress and the need for same sex schools will disappear.

and surely we should be aiming for a society where girls are able to study alongside boys and do equally as well regardless. It’s not a positive that they need to be segregated to do better - if indeed this is factually correct.

i just think it’s very short sighted even if you do look at “they do better academically”. If you have to take time learning how to interact with males in a higher education setting, you’re going to struggle in a way your counterparts from mixed schools don’t. Therefore you’ll be behind socially.

I just don’t think it’s ok - having experienced it first hand and having seen that it is problematic as one hits teen years. But that’s just me obviously others feel different so fair enough.

I didn't have any male friends at 14 either and I went to a mixed comprehensive ,I wasn't particularly popular ,I only started having male friends from about 17
My son is 17 and he has a mixed group of friends now he's at college
But most of his friends atsvholl.were male.

Why do people always feel the need to deny reality on these threads. Yes, some boys are perfect angels. Some girls are awful. Statistically it has been shown again and again that girls deal with sexual harassment from
pre-pubescent boys. Statistically boys are more likely engage in behaviors that interrupt classroom instruction. The statistics on secondary school campus rape are horrifying. That doesn’t mean girls do nothing wrong. It simply means that boys as a group have been shown to disrupt girls education.

She's had interaction with her father and other male family members. She's presumably been out in public and seen that boys and men exist. Why does she need "meaningful interactions with boys her own age"? For what purpose?

At university and work, as indeed in public spaces, she can treat the boys and men she meets in the same way she treats the girls and women she meets.

No good can come from a follow up conversation with a sibling you’re not close to.

That, especially if it's a conversation about their children or their parenting, could (and should) be C&Pd into many, many Mumsnet threads.

If you have to take time learning how to interact with males in a higher education setting, you’re going to struggle in a way your counterparts from mixed schools don’t. Therefore you’ll be behind socially
Another very weird post.
How much "learning" is actually required? Mind boggling...

Right? Either males are normal human beings, in which case learning to interact with other human beings will also apply here, or males are dangerous, in which case how lucky OP's niece is to get so many years largely away from them.

Practise at what? I know men are the enemy on MN but they are human like the rest us, not all women are the same nor all men

Why are you complicating this? it seems there are some poster's that go like a dog with a bone on one specific thought and just run with it, do people really to fixate on something?

I see what you’re saying OP but I don’t think it’s unusual.

my own DD (yr6) goes to a mixed school but her social life revolves around girls.

in choosing secondary she likes one option exactly BECAUSE it’s all girls

i also went to a mixed primary and then all girls secondary

and I have a brother. So I interacted with boys.

i still found the teen and early 20s years very difficult. And had low self worth and ran from the boys that would have treated me nice and fell for bread crumpets who strung me along.

but I don’t think that’s because I went to an all girls school.

i think it’s because my dad is emotionally unavailable, everything on his terms, I learned to work hard for breadcrumbs of his attention.

mu parents marriage was a dysfunctional mess and they both used me as their emotional support.

i also had zero positive guidance from anyone around what a good relationship might look like, how to find and build one, how to spot bad ones and end them.

i think for a long time my parents were happy I was always single as they worried I’d ’get myself into trouble’ ie pregnant

mu brother was older and insecure so he took his anxieties out on me, policing my behaviour and the way I acted and dressed around boys. I also now know he warned all his friends off me as the idea of any of them getting involved with me would have been embarrassing for him.

Normal People was very close to the bone for me.

so yes I struggled to build meaningful respectful male relationships. But I think what you experience and are shown and told at home Matters much more that whether you share a classroom with boys.

@MissChristmasChild I went to a girls' school from 5-18. I only have sisters, and was in Girl Guides. I didn't speak to a single boy until I went to university, but still managed to make friends with boys, share houses with them etc. I didn't have to "learn to interact" with them - I just got on with doing what I'd always done (being brilliant academically, without reference to anyone else). I then managed to get married and have children - including sons. I would have been very fed up with someone who thought I was in some way dysfunctional.