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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To think lack of routine and structure is to blame?

38 replies

Grilly · 21/12/2023 09:04

My friend has a four year old. He can’t sit still, can’t pay attention and is often in trouble at school for being disobedient and being rough with other kids.

Friend and her husband split before the boy was one and I don’t know the ins and outs but they were both living with new partners within a few months. Her son spends alternate weekends and holidays with his dad and stepmum, weekdays with his mum and stepdad, and alternate weekends and some evenings and midweek overnights with his mum’s parents or other family and babysitters. He’s been in full time childcare since he was a baby.

I’ve babysat a lot over the years and he’s a lovely boy but needs a lot of redirection, exercise and expectation setting. He and my daughter get on great and he really takes pride in crafts or whatever we do. He doesn’t get read to at home or have much if any individual attention (they have older kids). She does her best but she’s got four kids to look after now including a baby and is always busy. My friend is now talking about pursuing various SEN diagnoses and medication to calm him down.

AIBU to think he’d be doing much better if he had some routine and structure and attention paid to him?

OP posts:

Mariannas · 21/12/2023 09:06

In what way are you qualified to make this judgement?

5foot5 · 21/12/2023 09:10

Well you might be right. Then again he could be just a natural fidget who will calm down when he gets older. I know several families with one like this and no diagnosis or treatment needed or received.

Heronwatcher · 21/12/2023 09:11

Sounds much more like an underlying SEN to me, I think she’s right. Sounds just like quite a few kids I know who have ADHD. I’d just support her in trying to get a diagnosis- no one will know until that’s been done and it us, frankly, a nightmare at the moment.

Lottapianos · 21/12/2023 09:12

Well you're going to get your backside handed to you on here OP, but what you're saying doesn't sound unreasonable to me. You say he gets almost no individual attention at home and has had a lot of instability in his life - its not hard to understand that there will be consequences for his behavior

MissyB1 · 21/12/2023 09:12

I work in the nursery class of an infant school and this story sounds sadly familiar. Lack of structure and parental attention definitely seems to impact young children very negatively. It’s very very tricky trying to communicate that to parents. We are making more and more referrals to family support workers.

SatanClaws · 21/12/2023 09:13

His pattern sounds like that of a normal 4 year old from a split family to me. He may or may not have some additional needs but that isn't anyone's place to judge aside from qualified medical professionals. Keep your nose out of it.

PastTheGin · 21/12/2023 09:13

I think you are probably right, OP, but this will not be a popular opinion.

MahShinyShoes · 21/12/2023 09:13

YANBU if you're offering to step in and facilitate the exercise and routine you feel would improve his behaviour. Mum is already, in your words, doing her best.

If this is just a post criticising the Mum, YABVU

Harvestfestivalknickers · 21/12/2023 09:14

I agree OP, my two DC preferred routine - I think it gave them comfort/security in knowing what was happening and familiarity. I don't think you need to be 'qualified' to know as a parent, children are happier with a routine and a familiar structure to their lives.

Brandyginger · 21/12/2023 09:15

You are most probably right and I agree that some parents rush to medication rather than doing the hard yards of parenting consistently - BUT lack of attachment as a baby etc can also create very real problems. It may need structured professional help beyond a bit of routine and consistent boundaries from the parents.

I say this as the parent of two children with SEN, one of whom gets middle rate DLA (to give you an indication of impairment).

Sartre · 21/12/2023 09:15

Could be SEN though. My youngest DC won’t sit still for long but he’s a lovely little boy, he loves to read books and that’s one of the only times he will sit still actually. He has lots of structure and routine, he’s just a very active boy and he’s a runner too. My older DC weren’t like this so it’s new to me. He legs it the first opportunity he gets. Could be SEN so nursery are investigating.

You’re not really qualified to judge and don’t sound like a particularly kind friend. She has a lot going on, I’m sure she’s trying her best like most parents.

NeurodivergentBurnout · 21/12/2023 09:16

I kind of think you’re both right. I’ve got ADHD (and I’m Autistic). I am much, much better with structure, routine, regular exercise and routine. BUT knowing I have both diagnoses has been life changing for me! I chose to take medication and I feel much better for it. I don’t think she’s unreasonable to look at assessments.

MojoDojoCasaHouse · 21/12/2023 09:17

Could be both things at once. He could have ND but his home life sounds awful. If he is ND even more reason for structure and attention at home.

Both my DC are ND and we have put a lot of effort into making home a stable safe place for them. This has really pays off and despite their difficulties they are happy well attached teenagers. Really important for all children actually.

GreenwichOrTwicks · 21/12/2023 09:17

Poor little boy. I wonder if he feels that he doesn’t actually belong anywhere a bit like those Jane Austen maiden aunts who were always staying in other people’s houses but knowing they were tolerated and not actually wanted? He seems like no-one’s priority 😔😔And the Mum’s response is to tout for a label and medication?????

Shopper727 · 21/12/2023 09:21

I am consistent and impose rules on my 4 kids my youngest has asd & adhd. You are dealing with this kid 1:1 so maybe you don’t notice things, he’s happy and relaxed with you that’s not to say he copes in a classroom. Or when his baby sibling is crying or when it’s noisy/chaotic at home. A diagnosis was made for my son in various settings over a long period of time so there will be no snap diagnosis but if he’s struggling and mum is concerned then she’s entitled to be heard. That may lead to assessment it may not, it took over 3 years for my sons diagnosis x2.

you could try being supportive to your friend and kind, she’s likely quite worried about him .

JamSandle · 21/12/2023 09:22

I think this does make a BIG impact.

IWishTheBishopWell · 21/12/2023 09:23

I had a lot of structure and routine as a child and lots of attention (raised as an only child) and was read to daily.

I'm still neurodivergent (dyspraxia and dyscalculia).

This little boy may well have SEN and if he does, although he may benefit from more structure and routine, it won't remove the SEN.

TheSnowyOwl · 21/12/2023 09:23

It’s impressive how you know all the detailed ins and outs of his life 24/7 to know what is missing in his life and what isn’t.

It could well be sen or it could be that he is reacting to an unsettled home life although given his age, and the fact you say he has been in full time childcare since a baby, I’m very surprised that he hasn’t had a huge amount of structure in the last four years as that’s normally guaranteed in childcare settings. Presumably he started school in September and if he does have sen, he might well be exhausted by the change so reading at home often isn’t practical.

How about you support your friend and give her some help? What experience do you have with sen? Maybe her talking to the school senco about an assessment is a good thing as that will be somebody else, who should be in a qualified position to do so, either agreeing to support an application or not - and they won’t just agree to support on her say so, not when the child is only four and been there for a term.

namechange1986 · 21/12/2023 09:26

@Brandyginger rush to medication? A diagnosis tends to take years!

NoCloudsAllowed · 21/12/2023 09:27

It's not really either/or though, is it? That doesn't sound like a very stable or attentive environment but he could be sen as well. People just do the best they can and it isn't always perfect.

Original poster

Grilly · 21/12/2023 09:27

I have known Friend for a very long time and can accept maybe I’m not being a good friend to her. To be honest though, I am starting to feel she’s not being a very good mum to her son. He often looks a bit bedraggled and dirty and it’s sad to see how excited he is to read or play with me and my daughter.

She and her ex also have two older girls but they’re quite self-sufficient. Her partner values family time with just her and the new baby so her son seems a bit displaced. She is often exasperated with her son but tends to ignore him as his behaviour escalates then tell him off and he doesn’t seem to listen to her. I do think the friendship is waning because of this.

I agree he may have SEN but I also think having lived between so many homes (both parents have moved several times) and his lack of attention and routine is playing a big part in his behaviour.

OP posts:

ElevenSeven · 21/12/2023 09:29

PastTheGin · 21/12/2023 09:13

I think you are probably right, OP, but this will not be a popular opinion.

I agree.

Spendonsend · 21/12/2023 09:31

The assessment process should take into account background. I know it seems to vary from area to area, but a lot of areas the first stage is asking lots of questions about the set up at home - 'the parental interview'. The second stage in a lot of areas is a long parenting course (which actually is quite good apart from the awkward timings). Then there is the multidisciplinary bit before diagnosis where lots of professionals observd the child. Then you are on a wait list for assessment for medication but thats not automatic. At the moment no new adhd people are getting medication as there is a shortage and they are prioritising existing prescriptions. And most adhders are not medicated anyway.

Of course you are right that a chaotic homelife can result in behaviours that mimic some adhd/asd. Its also true that someone can have a choatic home and adhd. That's why is better trained professionals assess not friends.

BogRollBOGOF · 21/12/2023 09:32

It could be lifestyle. It could be SEN. It could be both. If SENs are involved that can often make it harder to be consistent about routines. If a child has SENs, there's a higher chance that their parents do too and that will make consistent parenting harder.

Different people have different ideas about what a routine is. We did have a light bedtime routine of book and bed around a certain time, but because it wasn't done in a fixed way by 7pm, DM has always considered that we don't have a bedtime routine. Never mind that I wasn't tired by 7pm, inevitably dragged it out as late as I could, got told off, then lay in bed for two hours and got told off for damaging my eyesight if I tried to read by the streetlamps to try and pass the time. The 7pm bit was the part that defined the routine in her eyes 🙄 "Routine" can be a subjective concept.

Dweetfidilove · 21/12/2023 09:33

He may or may not have SEN, but I agree with you. His little life sounds awfully chaotic, so SEN or not, he could do with some structure and attention.

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