To think lack of routine and structure is to blame?

[Grilly]

My friend has a four year old. He can’t sit still, can’t pay attention and is often in trouble at school for being disobedient and being rough with other kids.

Friend and her husband split before the boy was one and I don’t know the ins and outs but they were both living with new partners within a few months. Her son spends alternate weekends and holidays with his dad and stepmum, weekdays with his mum and stepdad, and alternate weekends and some evenings and midweek overnights with his mum’s parents or other family and babysitters. He’s been in full time childcare since he was a baby.

I’ve babysat a lot over the years and he’s a lovely boy but needs a lot of redirection, exercise and expectation setting. He and my daughter get on great and he really takes pride in crafts or whatever we do. He doesn’t get read to at home or have much if any individual attention (they have older kids). She does her best but she’s got four kids to look after now including a baby and is always busy. My friend is now talking about pursuing various SEN diagnoses and medication to calm him down.

AIBU to think he’d be doing much better if he had some routine and structure and attention paid to him?

Op my eldest was like this and was indeed diagnosed with adhd and we decided medication was appropriate at 6. HOWEVER none of that happened BEFORE extensive work was done to ensure it wasn't environmental factors (eg parenting/routine) at play. We had to exhaust all possibilities, attend parenting classes, be observed by professionals etc etc and only once that was done and they were convinced it wasn't my parenting/routine/diet/lifestyle that was the issue, did they move on to adhd/asd assessments and subsequent diagnosis. My son is nearly 22 now and I don't know how much has changed but I'm pretty sure it's still not a question of popping to the GP and coming out with a prescription for Ritalin.

It’s difficult because both a lack of attention and sen could easily be the cause. Being bedraggled and dirty is often a cause of not being washed or changing clothes frequently enough but that can also be sensory issues with a sen child that as a parent you don’t push, because you are aware you are already asking too much of them and they can’t cope.

Two of my children are autistic and it can take several hours to do a bath and hair wash. Those hours consist of a child screaming, lashing out, and being disruptive to the rest of the household. Sometimes for everyone’s sake, washing is done on a less regular basis than it would be for a neurotypical child.

Also, my sen children wouldn’t cope with full time childcare and many other autistic or adhd children wouldn’t either. As a result, the home time comes across to an outsider as a dysregulated mess but really it’s just a sen child having a meltdown because they can’t cope.

Presumably the same way that dozens and dozens of posters on Mumsnet think they are qualified to diagnose autism and ADHD among others from the shortest of OPs

OP, you just can't tell but surely a hectic, disorganised household where the parents flit from one thing to another are more likely to have kids who are all over the place too.

@namechange1986 where I live in London, and the kids I know at private schools, parents go privately and can go from not wanting to engage with their challenging child to holding a script for meds in a few months. There are private waiting lists for assessment but it’s more a matter of weeks rather than years.

As I said I have a child with SEN and I am in a lot of support groups and have seen a lot over 14 years. my own mother told me it was my poor parenting why I had a child with ASD and numerous other diagnoses so I do know what it’s like to be blamed for SEN.

But in my personal opinion a lot of structure and careful parenting can help and some behaviour is pathologised as SEN and medicated when it really isn’t needed. Particularly if parents are paying thousands of pounds. Just my lived experience.

If you have a safeguarding concern about him being bedraggled, dirty and neglected then you should ring the NSPCC about the best way to express that concern.

(It wont be speculating on mumsnet)

I agree. But ops friend will totally fall out with her if she says it.

All kids would do better with more attention, and structure us a great start for family life.

Whatever the case, the little vot is not having his needs met. It may be because his needs have not been identified ie neurodiversity.

Or it may just be that he needs a lot more exercise. A child cannot sit and concentrate until they can run, and they need to run and climb a lot.

Poor little lad. He's pretty much homeless, of course he will have problems

It doesn't matter what or if diagnoses he's being assessed for, what matters is that he has unmet needs and your friend is looking into this so the appropriate support can be put in place. She's absolutely doing the right thing. Leave her be.

As a primary school teacher, I'd say you were probably right OP.

But that being said, it's not really your business, or your problem.

People have asked how I am offering support. I’ve thought about suggesting that we have him a set night or two every week. But I’m worried that adding in another setting with different expectations would make it worse. He cries a lot when he has to go home after a sleepover here.

Friend’s ex has asked to swap around the contact pattern (they can’t do 50/50 due to distance), and to be honest I think it’d be better for him, but Friend immediately shuts down the idea and I don’t think the ex would be successful at court as Friend’s always been the primary carer.

I also think YANBU. As pp have said, even if he does have SEN it’s definitely not being helped atm by his lack of attention and structure in his life.

This isn’t necessarily his parents’ fault, but if this was my child I’d be having a long hard look at my parenting and at what’s happening in my child’s life before jumping on the medication/assessment bandwagon.

It may be true but you don’t know the full ins and outs of his life so I don’t think you’re qualified to make this judgment.