Police to be given right to use photos from driving license and maybe passport for facial recognition

[cakeorwine]

Police to be able to run face recognition searches on 50m driving licence holders | Facial recognition | The Guardian

Interesting.
The Government has pictures of our faces for passports and driving licenses. A clause in a new criminal justice bill will allow the police to have access to these pictures for matching against facial recognition. Pick an image up with a camera and the police will be able to use these pictures to identify the person.

Assuming the facial recognition technology can be trusted.

OTOH - it's useful for catching suspects.

But OTOH, how many people will end up on a database and watch list for taking part in protests, demonstrations - and who knows where that will end.

Facial recognition is being used to scan crowds for people the police are after.

The EU had proposed similar but dropped it due it being a disproportionate breach of privacy.

I suspect that I might end up on a database because of some of my political views. Probably on it already. Heck, they probably already have my picture from the DVLA anyway.

But do we really give our photos to the Government so they can be used to catch criminals?

Tbh I assumed they already used the images and information they hold in many ways we don't know about.

Having had 2 parents grow up in different police states, the idea that governments such as those could ever get their hands on this sort of power is terrifying. We are only ever one election away from this sort of horror I don't trust the lot we have in at the moment or have had previously. Remember all those poor people who were dumped into relationships with undercover police, remember all the police in prison or under investigation for rape, murder etc. these are not good people to trust with these sorts of powers

At least we wouldn't have to pay £800 fine for not identifying the driver that came to our old address...
They do this automatically in many countries..

No, I don't approve of that use of my pictures.

Has facial recognition technology improved so much that it's ready for prime time?

https://www.statewatch.org/news/2020/september/uk-unmasking-facial-recognition-an-exploration-of-the-racial-bias-implications-of-facial-recognition-surveillance-in-the-united-kingdom/

Someone will be along soon to say the innocent have nothing to hide, so I'll say what I always say on these sort of threads about massive invasion of privacy orchestrated by a corrupt government who pay themselves instead of doctors. As Terry Pratchett said, everyone is guilty of something. He also pointed out the pointlessness of weapons amnesties due to the fact that it depends on you being a law-abiding citizen who will hand over your weapons.

People who kid themselves that they're "the innocent" tend to be the first ones in the firing line because they convince themselves this sort of thing won't apply to them. The knowingly-guilty are already taking precautions.

I've got nothing to hide. If they catch the bad guys, good!

I has no idea they couldn't already do this. I've never given it any thought but it surprises me this is something that requires a change in the law to allow it.

"I had no idea I wasn't already oppressed this way so that's fine"

🤦

Which way is the YABU OP?
I highly disapprove. The state decides who's a 'criminal'. Look at what happened to Posie Parker.

If you haven’t done anything wrong I don’t see the issue. And if it catches murderers, rapists, those that commit violence earlier, good.

personally look up the show called person of intrest @cakeorwine i advocate that a machine gets created that can be used similar to how it is in the show.

I thought that this was the point in having your photo on drivers licences and passports - to catch criminals? To prove who you were? Surprised to hear they don’t already do it tbh.

What is "doing anything wrong?"

The police film protests and demonstrations. Is it ok for the police to film protests and then identify people at the protests and demonstrations, just to add to their database.

No - it's to prove who you are when it comes to seeing if you can drive that car or enter the country.

A specific purpose.

I’m ok with this. Which might be surprising because I’ve lived in police states and have seen first hand what they can do.

The times, they are a changing. So many criminals are ‘caught’ on cctv but not traced. This will be useful both for prosecution and as a deterrent.

It is an investigative tool. It is not like suspending habeus corpus.

@cakeorwine so then why are they on the approved list to prove identity for gaining employment, obtaining a bank account and other financial dealings and getting a dbs. As well as when needing to secure the services of a solicitor or wanting to vote.
so much more to them than just gaining entry to the country or proving having a vehicle licence. They prove you exist and who you are.

yes, because from a national security point of view if extra information is needed or theres different situations and need to know who was at eg x station at x protest then the information is already available etc

They can certainly prove who you are - when you need to prove who you are to someone.
But that is different to being used to identify who someone is when they don't know who you are.

Did you know that you don't need to give your name to a police officer unless there are specific circumstances?

I think the future will be police with cameras on linked to facial recognition software so they don't need to ask you.

Ministers looking at body-worn facial recognition technology for police | Police | The Guardian

Right on cue.
Everyone has something to hide. How can you guarantee you will never be reclassified as a bad guy?

I work for a trade union myself, so I expect I am on a few 'lists'.

It always surprises me that I am still considered enough of an upstanding citizen to countersign passport applications, would have thought the tories would have struck us off that.

This is a deeply concerning move. People always say 'nothing to hide, nothing to fear'... the goalposts can quickly be changed. I agree with you.

Innocent people have been shot dead in their own neighbourhood in my lifetime.
The state isn’t always out to get you, but sometimes they are.

The “nothing to hide” people are useful idiots.

@cakeorwine in that case I’m definitely more than happy for them to identify the man who flashed me in the park, the score who broke into Dh lorry and stole his bag and several £1k worth of personal belonging, and the the three men who mugged me in the early afternoon for my garbage and gate keys or the drunk driver who nearly killed a family member but never had any punishment. Extremely happy to be identified if I can’t /won’t give my name especially so if I’m injured or dead.

our legal system is not perfect, and there’s plenty wrong with it, but this isn’t a hill to die on.

just seen the update - how about just having some police - that would be a big improvement. Instead we get maybe 6 per night for an entire county.

Agree with pp about the potential racial bias in facial recognition.

Has this been sorted or not? What guarantees are there that this bias has been rectified?

I think this isn’t something to go towards blindly.

Fatuous argument. The issue we have with low rates of rape conviction aren’t because we can’t identify the suspect in the vast majority or cases.