Police to be given right to use photos from driving license and maybe passport for facial recognition

[cakeorwine]

Police to be able to run face recognition searches on 50m driving licence holders | Facial recognition | The Guardian

Interesting.
The Government has pictures of our faces for passports and driving licenses. A clause in a new criminal justice bill will allow the police to have access to these pictures for matching against facial recognition. Pick an image up with a camera and the police will be able to use these pictures to identify the person.

Assuming the facial recognition technology can be trusted.

OTOH - it's useful for catching suspects.

But OTOH, how many people will end up on a database and watch list for taking part in protests, demonstrations - and who knows where that will end.

Facial recognition is being used to scan crowds for people the police are after.

The EU had proposed similar but dropped it due it being a disproportionate breach of privacy.

I suspect that I might end up on a database because of some of my political views. Probably on it already. Heck, they probably already have my picture from the DVLA anyway.

But do we really give our photos to the Government so they can be used to catch criminals?

This isn't true because the programming has already been proven to discriminate against POC. Even AI is racist. Just think who the programmers are. You can google this, it's a proven fact.

Facial recognition is not reliable for those of a certain range of skin shade

Happening here.
Using it at football matches. Scan everyone's faces against the faces of people who are criminals / suspects in any case - and see who they can find.

Shops are using it now - facial recognition software to catch people who are known shoplifters.

AI-powered facial recognition is coming soon to a store near you | TechRadar

if you are not doing owt wrong whats the issue? not gonna lie, i've changed so much since my photo was taken for my driving license i'd be impressed if the software would work out it was me

I think they do it anyway. If they want any of the things you listed they just get a warrant to get it legally.

It's not just IDs. Do you know what the most valuable resource on Earth is? Your data. From your phone, yes the camera- they use your front camera even to track your eye movements so they know how to better place ads, etc. That same data is used by surveillance entities in the government. It's cross tracked against where you shop in person, etc. They have everything. They know what shade of makeup you have on. They know what deodorant you're wearing. They know you got a haircut yesterday. We agreed in the Terms and Conditions.

People use face recognition and/or finger print to open their phones.

if its a machine and just identifies all individuals that were present at x protest then how can any bias be possible ?

because the facial recognition system misidentifies black and brown faces. There was a really interesting programme about it.

I think there are strong laws about that.
I don't think they can force you to use your face or finger to access your phone.
They can ask you for your PIN and you can refuse to give it.
Can the Police Access My Phone Without the PIN or Pattern in England? Understanding Legal Boundaries and Protections - Criminal Law Firm London (makwanas.co.uk)

But they probably have it all anyway somewhere.....

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-022-03050-7

From the article

An audit of commercial facial-analysis tools found that dark-skinned faces are misclassified at a much higher rate than are faces from any other group

This country is so fucked at this point

Pp referenced Person of interest. In that they showed two realities one where the AI went rogue.
I don’t want this in our reality.

If the protestors are breaking the law then of course I support anything that makes it easier to bring them to justice. Whether we're talking about Tommy Robinson's thugs or the racists who did this: www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-67328715

i do understand that concern that said id still have the machine

if there were no criminals then the security services etc and society would not need these tools

What if the people in power decide that fighting for (insert whatever it is you believe in - higher taxes/lower taxes/ more immigration/less immigration/war/no war/rights for ponies/puppies/rabbits/children/women/men etc etc) and you then end up on a database. These lot of politicians decide they are going to arrest all rabbit lovers and you happen to have gone to a protest supporting rabbits. What then? You still happy to be on file?
My grandmother was tortured because her Brother in Law was anti communist. She hadn't even gone to a meeting or demonstration at that point. she was pregnant and very nearly miscarried.
It's a very dangerous road

Next time there is a protest, you could be stopped on the way to the protest and detained. To make sure you don't go to the protest.

And they know that from filming you at a protest and deciding that you shouldn't go on the next one.

Of course, the police should be trusted as they never abuse their powers, do they?

Would you trust the police to be able to identify any person they see on a video feed?

You don’t know when the government ideology will no longer align with yours. You might find you are in the wrong side of the law because of what you believe in. Feminists who don’t believe men can become women is a great example. They’re being questioned by the police for expressing a view that few people 10-15 years ago would have ever believed could be contentious never mind illegal.

This is what’s happening in China. Facial recognition is fully embedded there. You can even use it to pay for goods in shops. Scan your face and off you go. What you can’t do is publicly protest if you want to keep your job.

id trust the security services more, besides considering when protests turn to vandalism etc, surley preventing incidents before they happen would be better for society overall ?

or would you rather be reading in the papers, why didnt x do more to prevent it ?

Arresting people before they protest just in case?

How does that sound to you?

@cakeorwine so challenge the system and get it opened up to scrutiny and accountability, make the law and legal system and the political system available for everyone one to use, and get the technology improved etc.
It’s way too late to stop the police and other enforcement agencies from using this technology. Prevention is pointless at this point it’s been around for decades, but it’s not too late to improve regulation, system upgrades and all checks and balances that can be put into place to be done. It has a lot of potential benefits for society.
There are flaws with everything, anything can be used to benefit society just as it can be used against, but information can and should be gathered to ensure the safety of everyone.
A.I and other technological advances can be harnessed for both good and bad, they are here to stay, so campaign for greater oversight and openness around them which might just have a better chance of success, because the chance to ban them has long been lost.

The laws around protesting are a political argument. The laws are in place and the police can only act in them. Get involved in politics to change them. (And no I don’t agree with this particular law)
Its a separate argument and thread from the police using facial recognition and information gathering.

For all those saying they have nothing to hide and this is a good thing, remember that crime is a social construct and what is considered a crime or not a crime is a constantly changing situation.

@OracleofWurms

i do understand that concern that said id still have the machine

its risky to trust those in power to do the right thing. And especially as there’s no guarantees that there is no bias in coding.