To wonder if I actually have a criminal record?

[barnside]

I’m very anxious about this and I’ve looked online a lot and can’t seem to find an answer.

In 2019 I was four months pregnant and in a horrible relationship. It was the worst time of my life and I can’t believe it happened to me, never ever thought I would end up in a situation like that. I don’t know if the trauma of everything has made my memory bad but I am now about to go for a job which asks for enhanced dbs and I have to declare on the application if I know of anything relating to a criminal record. Before you read what’s next I just want to say I am utterly ashamed of it all and yes, I’ve done a lot of work on myself over the last few years.

Basically in 2019 I called the police twice in a panic while in a room with this man. They came out and took a statement from me the first time which I was reluctant to give. Man was arrested and taken in for questioning. No further action was taken and things changed for a while, until the next time where I called and hung up but they still turned up anyway. On that occasion they asked us both questions separately and then told us we needed to be apart for 24 hours and that was it.

I left a few days later and then came back to collect my things. He wouldn’t let me in, I was banging on the door and then he suddenly opened it, pushed me to one side and started to leave the building. I followed him and I think grabbed his coat or arm and said please let me get my things, practically begging him. Next I remember him disappearing round the corner outside on his phone and then a few minutes later police turning up in cars. Apparently he had rang his dad and his dad had decided to call the police to say he was being harassed and threatened by me. I saw the police arrive as I was still waiting to speak to my ex outside the building and I saw them talking to him. I walked over and said what is going on I’m just trying to talk to him about the pregnancy and collect my things. Then what happened next is a blur, the two policeman came to me and I remember saying something like I am so worried my baby will have an awful father and one of the policemen said he didn’t have a dad growing up and he was fine and I needed to think of myself. I remember them being nice. Then one of them said where’s you car, let me take you to it as it’s obvious this relationship is over, I said yes it was over and I wanted to leave but I didn’t know why he had called the police. One policeman stayed with my ex and the other walked me to my car and I asked what my ex had said to them, he said he had said he felt harassed and that I had accused him of keeping my watch (which I had, part of why I wanted my things back). I was so shaken up by all this that when he asked if I wanted him to get my belongings or look into the watch I just said no and he said ok I think it’s best you stay away from here don’t you? And I agreed. I then left and didn’t hear from my ex until a long time after when he started to make cms payments. Ex did say many months later that he never made an official statement but he answered all their questions and they wrote things down. I think they did the same with me but I don’t really remember exactly and more remember being taken to the car and general chat with them.

I don’t understand if I was given a caution or a warning? Have a got a criminal record in any way for harassment or harm or something? I have thought about it on and off over the years but only now I have this enhanced dbs that I’ve begun to think about it in detail. How can I find out? I’m not a bad person I just made some bad decisions and I want to continue moving forward positively but this is making me very stressed.

This is the anxiety talking, you cannot have a criminal record from the interactions you are describing. There is also very specific wording around cautions as people have suggested and seeing as you appear to remember a lot of detail about the encounter you would know if that had happened.

Anxiety is a bugger, I remember when I was desperate to start a new job because I was getting away from a bullying boss and I got super anxious that there might be a drug test before I could start and I'd taken a few puffs on a joint recently. Which was totally irrational as there was no suggestion at any point that there would be a drugs test, nor was an office job with a small professional organisation likely to ever ask for one, nor would a few puffs be likely to show on a test weeks later!

@Catza I remember being defensive and saying I just was trying to talk about our baby and collect the rest of my things. I know I didn’t admit anything. Would it be silly to contact the police to ask do you think?

No harm in contacting them, although I suspect you would need to fill in some kind of an official request to have your records released which takes time.
Honestly, I would just submit for DBS at this point. The results can be with you in the next few days and then you will know. Did you get the job?

You have to accept a caution and sign something, you would definitely know.

you’re fine!

You won’t have a criminal record and you would know if you were cautioned because they have to say the “you do not have to say anything but it may harm your defence if you do not mention now …” wording, followed by telling you clearly you’re being cautioned.

You can request info on what info police hold about yourself through a subject access request (normally via the website) to your local force if you need to settle your mind further.

It sounds like the Police were just trying to keep the peace. They told you what he had said to them - that wasn't explaining a crime, there was no crime. The way you wrote it in your OP they didn't give you an official warning to stay away they suggested it would be better for you if you did to avoid further trouble. At this point I might have asked the Police to stay with me while I collected my things before leaving but it doesn't sound like any crimes were committed by anyone.

@Kellogg1 sorry I mean I know I wasn’t cautioned but I wondered if I had a caution or a warning.. which I thought was different to being cautioned with those specific words? Those words definitely weren’t said

It doesn't sound like you have anything, but if it would put your mind as ease you can do a subject access request for your PNC info https://www.acro.police.uk/s/acro-services/subject-access

What you describe definitely isn't something you need to disclose and won't show up on a DBS check. They were just advising you not to come back, and no action was taken against you.

It would be very clear if you had been given a caution. You would have had a formal interview, and the opportunity to speak to a solicitor. The police aren't allowed to just casually dish out cautions without telling people. It doesn't sound like you did anything that could be considered a criminal offence anyway, which is why they would have advised you to leave and taken no further action, just to prevent things escalating.

@Stilldigging ok thanks, i didn’t realise you had to be offered a solicitor for a warning/caution so that does make me feel more certain it didn’t happen as I literally just was taken to my car after a few general questions about what was going on between us

If you weren’t cautioned you don’t have one.
It is law that the caution has to be said. If you had any kind of harassment warning or notice you’d have to have signed it or at least been asked to.

The only thing that might be on record is an adult or child concern which will basically just explain the circumstances of the police interaction with you for their info. It won’t show on checks and it’s more for the police themselves incase there are future incidents.

@Kellogg1 i did have a call from someone in the council asking if I was ok a few weeks later?

Very normal. Safeguarding checks to make sure you are safe, whether you need further support and that the situation hasn’t escalated.

@Kellogg1 was that social services then? And does that show up on dbs? I’ve never heard of this before and I was really surprised when they called, I didn’t even understand what department they were from.

A caution would have taken place at the police station and would have to sign to say that you had accepted it. As neither of those things happened then you have nothing that an enhanced DBS will pick up.

Doesn’t sound like you have anything to worry about. You would know if you had a caution.

I work for an organisation that requires an enhanced DBS and we do sometimes employ people who have had convictions. Depends what for, when, how honest they are with us about it etc.

yes this is the thing I don’t know if being told I should leave was a caution or a warning? I just don’t know for sure and don’t know how to find out

It was neither. It was advice on diffusing the situation

As pp said if you'd been formally warned ir cautioned it would have been done at a police station & the process would have been explained to you.

You've been given neither & you certainly don't have a criminal record

So there's the caution they give you if they arrest you. They also say it at the start of an interview. That's just warning you about talking to them or answering no comment. You do not have to say anything but anything you do say may be written down etc etc.

Then there is a caution you can get as an alternative to a conviction. You have to be interviewed and admit the offence in interview. Then you'd need to sign paperwork to agree to it. That does go on your record. The caution is usually record with information such as your finger prints so they can be sure it's the right person.

If you didn't go to the police station for a formal interview you do not have a record.

@cupofdecaf thanks. Would you still have the verbal caution ‘if you do not say anything etc…’ if you went in for a potential caution or warning then? I feel so much calmer after this thread!!

So then for time you could be cautioned is is they suspected you of an offence and wanted to ask questions. This is the one you see on tv shows when they arrest someone. 'You do not have to say anything etc.' they say it at the start of interviews as well. Frankly they need a good argument to use anything you say prior to this caution against you. It's to inform you of your right to stay silent basically. Loads of people have this said to them that haven't even do anything wrong, it's just procedure and so you know your rights.

The caution you are concerned about is more formal and completely different. It's confusing they are called the same thing. It's a direct alternative to prosecution and you have to admit the offence in interview. You'd have a police record, you'd have been through custody in the police station and had you finger prints taken. You'd likely have had a solicitor. If this had happened I would really hope you remembered it.

From what you've said there was a domestic, they split you up and sent you away. They may have advised you to stay away from your ex but that's not a conviction that's just advice.

Long story short, OP my ex had me arrested by lying about my behaviour when I dared to turn up and catch him with the OW he was denying existed. I worried it would somehow show up on a DBS but I have been teaching for the last 12 years without any problems. If you had been cautioned, I think you would know it. Take care and good luck moving forwards in life.

I have both a conditional discharge and a caution from when I was younger. Both of which were done official via a recording in the police station and signing statements. From what you have explained you do not have a record so don’t worry.

plus if it helps mine haven’t shown up on any enhanced checks I have done.

No, you don’t have a criminal record of any kind from this incident.

I hope you’re in a better place now ♥️

Two separate things there which may be behind blurred.

Being cautioned ("you do not have to say anything etc") is not the same as getting a caution.

If a police officer is going to formally ask you about an offence they will caution you ("you do not have to say anything etc") so that anything you say can be used as evidence if required.
Getting a caution is a different thing - it is something you sign to say you accept. This is likely to be for a lower level offence and to keep things out of court. A caution is a resolution outcome. You can refuse a caution and then your case would go to court instead.

OP by the sound of it you have not be cautioned - you would have been given a copy of your paperwork when it was issued and it would explicitly state that you had been issued a caution.

It doesn’t sound like you’ve been cautioned but there will likely be some local intel held by your police force. Whether or not they disclose it is up to them but there are very specific rules around them doing so and it would need to be relevant to the role you’ve applied under - you don’t say whether adult or child workforce.

Unlock have some good advice pages/explain what can be disclosed in what circumstances.
https://unlock.org.uk/advice/filtering-cautions-convictions/