To be losing the will to live with staff who chosen a job with a long commute & then complain about it

[Benibidibici]

I work in a well paid industry - think 6 figure salaries.

We've made really clear through hiring processes that roles are hybrid, not remote, we as a team really get a lot from collaborative working so we expect 2 days a week in the central office. There's flex about which days but we ask that people try to mostly hit the core days of tues/weds/thurs. As a line manager I'm not watching the clock and we are happy to play around with what time people start & finish - eg. One guy leaves at 4.30 to collect his kids by 5.30 & this is fine.

We've hired 3 people this year and made all this clear and they're all grumbling about their commutes and regularly asking to come in less. We offer what we can in terms of flexibility but when we insist we need them in 2 days, they are basically sulking. Its clear one of them in particular never had any intention of coming to the office more than a day or so every 2-3 weeks and expected to get away with remote working.

Its really frustrating. We were honest about what we needed and people just seem to think they can insist.

Why do people do this? One lady has moved 2 hours from our city 3 years ago, and during that time consistently keeps applying for and taking jobs here rather than in the large city where she now lives. Her husband also works in our industry and between them they'll have an income of £200k plus, so they aren't forced to live in a cheaper area.

Its really shit for me to have to go through the unpleasant process of monitoring people's attendance & imposing formal consequences etc (I'm not that kind of manager at all) because they took a job they don't want to turn up for.

What can I do to stop people doing this?

Ask them if they still want their job.

Yes - well you need to be in the office two days a week. Do you understand?

No - please put your resignation in writing.

Has something changed recently on their commutes/are they all on the same line?

I only ask because 6 weeks ago the Elizabeth line, having been a wonderful boon to my and 2 colleagues' commutes, basically stopped functioning reliably and it's been an utter misery ever since. All three of us are also TWaTs and we're now all really struggling to get in reliably, having been stuck at signal failures, broken rails, etc. And even if we do get in it's unpredicable if we can get home again.

Anyone listening to us might think we are trying our hardest to stay home but after nightmare commutes almost every day for weeks, I'm going out of my way to make excuses not to come in unless it's absolutely essential.

*What can I do to stop people doing this?

Only hire people who live locally*

We tried this and people kept moving away once they got the job! One guy applied & it turned out he'd just been staying with a friend temporarily and listed that address.

Because doing a long expensive commute just to sit in an office when you could just as easily wfh seems a bit pointless, but with the job market the way it is - thousands of IT workers laid off this year for example, may mean that people don't have the option of being choosey about what job they take so they take it and complain.

My last company monitored productivity levels in the UK, Europe and India and found that people were actually more productive wfh so kept it but other places like the idea of bums on seats and micro managing.

A huge amount of training of less experienced staff is being lost due to lone working. There's no doubt I get far more done at home but being in means we share knowledge and are more collaborative. Bollix to women being negatively effected our career is just as important. We don't have to be utterly responsible for the domestic load.

This.

Perhaps for future new starters, get them to sign a very clear, specific sentence acknowledging that they know the job involves being in the office 2 or 3 days every week.
You shouldn't have to, but it might make managing the situation easier further down the line ?

more people in my industry (renewable energy) want to be in the office. Management have had to buy more desks and rearrange the whole office!

This is driven by "young people" (only saying this because a PP mentioned it)

I'm also fed up of hearing about colleagues getting puppies and then claiming they have to WFH to look after it.

Shows a serious lack of critical thinking & common sense. And people will judge those who whine about their long commutes and puppies.

I’m inclined to think the OP has been clear…people hear what they want to hear or think the rules don’t apply to them.

I was hiring for a temporary position once, the temp agency stressed to the applicant there was no chance for a permanent hire, I said the words “this will not turn into a permanent position” at least 3 times during the interview, and the feedback I got from the agency after the interview was that she asked him when she could get hired permanent. The only thing I didn’t do was have her repeat the words back to me (I never would do that but damn it’s tempting some days)

I passed on her after that, I didn’t have it in me to field constant questions about when I’d be converting her to permanent.

Complaining and not turning up aren't inherent consequences of people living further away. If people are able to turn up to the office as required, they should be able to live anywhere they like (at least, in the UK. There might be difficulties with them being based abroad and it's possible that that'll make them unable to actually turn up to the office as required). In many jobs, it's common to have people who live not so locally, either because of the local housing market or because they were already based elsewhere with their family. There doesn't have to be a problem like this.

What an employees household/combined income is shouldn't really come into it to be fair.

True. i guess if we as an employer were paying people shit wages but expecting them to live in an expensive city near work I'd think we were being unreasonable, but don't think its a valid concern here as we are paying pretty good wage

👏

Office working is becoming increasingly obsolete and younger people are actively rejecting roles that are office based.

New graduates are the ones who did online learning during the pandemic so will often be well aware that in person learning is far more superior to online. Many people are sociable and would rather sit next to a colleague and work rather than work from their bedroom because they house share or live in a home that’s too small to have an office.

Some helpful advice. Will try suggesting fixed days to make it even clearer its not optional

This x100000000

I have this issue too OP. We're a really flexible company but it's 3 days in the office and 2 WFH. It's mentioned clearly in adverts and interviews. I've now gotten to the point of scheduling interviews first thing in the morning so the candidate has a chance to actually do the commute and see what they're letting themselves in for. I always ask at interview too if they've considered all the practicalities of a long commute and they nearly always say yes...only to then later get grumpy about it. I find it quite puzzling!

You're fine.

Office working is becoming increasingly obsolete and younger people are actively rejecting roles that are office based.

Our trainees have been most disappointed as the people they are supposed to learn with aren't coming in. Its a hard job to learn 100% remotely. We lost trainees during covid for this reason.

Everyone saying that women being negatively impacted is "bollocks" are missing the point I think- nobody is saying women's careers aren't as important, or that society should default to women as caregivers.

The point is, currently society DOES default to women as caregivers, and as such women often do compressed hours/flexible work patterns etc to accommodate. The men who (mostly) don't do this, are therefore able to be in the office more when return to office mandates are rolled out, they're in the room getting face time with the bosses, going to company socials, getting promotions.

Flexible working is crucial to close the gender pay gap- by focusing less on people being together in person it levels the playing field. Same as for people with disabilities, who previously may not have had a seat at the table if they couldn't take a job that required them to be physically present in the office (for example).

Companies are entitled to do what they like, and if people don't like that then they can go work elsewhere- but flexible working is one of the best things to come out of the pandemic and is a huge driver in making workplaces more inclusive.

Lots of data and info on this online, but this is a good start https://www.womensequality.org.uk/flexible_working_gender_pay_gap

Anyway sorry to derail OP's post, just wanted to explain what I meant about my previous comments!

Thinking that work involves physically turning up somewhere only negatively impacts women - that's only if we accept as a society that the solution to childcare and housework needing to be done, is to expect women to do it all for free around paid work, probably multi tasking. Let her go to the office, concentrate on her job, interact with her team on equal terms, and earn enough to get a cleaner (well paid and well treated). Or let her man do it

This! Me and husband both do hybrid and i love my office days as that is his day having to rush around on school run!

My company is pretty good too in encouraging men to have flexible hours as well as women.

My firm are finding that 100% remote roles disproportionately negatively impact junior positions due to the loss of spontaneous on the job learning / networking opportunities which cannot be replicated in a WFH context.

Genuine question. Has the commute become more difficult? Train route alterations/cancellations, extended road works etc.

Plus is the need to be in, really a need or has it just become a habit with “off the peg” reasoning which has had its day. Has technology changed since these “rules” were introduced?

Finally, are these your “rules” or imposed from above?

Can’t you get them to sign an agreement to working at the office 3 days a week when they sign their contract, when any start moaning about it remind them of this and show them what they agreed to and signed if necessary.

I also worry if we can't show hybrid works, we'll get forced to remove option to wfh at all, which would have a really negative impact on many in our team including me

Can’t you get them to sign an agreement to working at the office 3 days a week when they sign their contract, when any start moaning about it remind them of this and show them what they agreed to and signed if necessary

Contract specifies 2 days minimum per week at office.

I moved as far into London as I could afford and my commute is longer than an hour into central. And that's when the trains are running properly. It is really shit and I have sympathy for people who have to do it and don't really have a choice when working in London. I would 100% move closer in a heartbeat if I could afford it.