To be losing the will to live with staff who chosen a job with a long commute & then complain about it

[Benibidibici]

I work in a well paid industry - think 6 figure salaries.

We've made really clear through hiring processes that roles are hybrid, not remote, we as a team really get a lot from collaborative working so we expect 2 days a week in the central office. There's flex about which days but we ask that people try to mostly hit the core days of tues/weds/thurs. As a line manager I'm not watching the clock and we are happy to play around with what time people start & finish - eg. One guy leaves at 4.30 to collect his kids by 5.30 & this is fine.

We've hired 3 people this year and made all this clear and they're all grumbling about their commutes and regularly asking to come in less. We offer what we can in terms of flexibility but when we insist we need them in 2 days, they are basically sulking. Its clear one of them in particular never had any intention of coming to the office more than a day or so every 2-3 weeks and expected to get away with remote working.

Its really frustrating. We were honest about what we needed and people just seem to think they can insist.

Why do people do this? One lady has moved 2 hours from our city 3 years ago, and during that time consistently keeps applying for and taking jobs here rather than in the large city where she now lives. Her husband also works in our industry and between them they'll have an income of £200k plus, so they aren't forced to live in a cheaper area.

Its really shit for me to have to go through the unpleasant process of monitoring people's attendance & imposing formal consequences etc (I'm not that kind of manager at all) because they took a job they don't want to turn up for.

What can I do to stop people doing this?

You can't stop it, but you can monitor it and if not satisfactory say so before, at monthly 1-2-1's, and then raise as an issue at probationary, and then let them go. Make sure you question them thoroughly at the interview stage in future, and explain that this has previously been a problem thus ie won't be in the future, are you sure this is ok.

OP what industry is that??

But there's a difference between going as a guest purely to have fun and going as staff and having to work.

Work wasn’t mentioned, the post referred to attending gigs.

I agree with this (and would include those with disabilities, health conditions and other caring responsibilities as well as kids).

Do ALL people NEED to be in the office as much you want them to? Is one size fits all policy right, or should you have different requirements for different jobs?

Its really shit for me to have to go through the unpleasant process of monitoring people's attendance & imposing formal consequences etc (I'm not that kind of manager at all) because they took a job they don't want to turn up for

Are they or are they not getting their work done.

And how do you know if they needed to live in a cheaper area? Maybe they did when they moved there.

However, taking a job miles away and moaning about the commute is a bit silly if you could have found a similar job closer to home. The problem we have in the UK is that things are still so London- and big city-centric so people do end up with long commutes for many types of jobs. My job doesn't exist in my town.

I love a good hybrid working argument thread on mn.
It all depends on the business and if you rent a huge costly office in say central London, and also which sort of employee you are trying to attract.

Working mums with tiny babies probably won't want to go on as often. If you are a certain age, (teasing) say 50, and have loads of friends, or are an introvert, you might not wanna go in either. I like going into the office 3 days and wfh 1. Ds1 has just finished a 3 month placement in Canary Wharf and he and his team of 30 went in most days, wfh occasionally. As a graduate/trainees having a breakfast / lunch and dinner for £1.60 in the subsidised canteen was the highlight! Being mentored was fabulous for him. For me, I don't need mentoring, clearly OP's candidates don't want to come in either. So, what do you do?

Yes it was. She mentioned getting rid of the staff member for having the audacity of asking to be paid for working.

Plus, if you have to attend, you're working.

She didn’t. Read it again.

@Usernameundiscovered

I never mentioned work once in my post- I said 'attend' - they don't work- they rock up to the event for free, usually get free drinks (and if they don't they can claim expenses- also can claim any travel ) and go to the after show party if there is one. Maybe chat to the promoter or artist etc

It's the nature of most jobs in PR - certainly within entertainment and is maybe a 4 or 5 times a year thing- not twice a week. Most normal people in our business see it as a very nice perk of the job -

It's not exactly an industry with candidate shortages either-

Sounds like work to me

You said it wasn’t a moment ago - But there's a difference between going as a guest purely to have fun and going as staff and having to work.

Not me

Public sector here and back 3 days a week. If say a standard day is 8.30 to 4.30 with hour lunch this is what my manager does...

Only 2 days a week not 3
On the 2 days they come in they rock up at 10am and leave 4.00pm. Saying they worked on the train whilst commuting in and out....Bullshit cos they never respond to emails or messages and I get people asking me where they are.

This is now affecting us a a team, other day they agreed to a meeting at 9.30 with coworker and he was wondering where they were ....

🙄

Since when did commute time mean during working hours and not before at the start of the day

YANBu. I manage a member or staff who has been working for us for 10 years. All great to commute 5 days a week 20 miles there and back daily before covid. Since Covid and the introduction of hybrid working, seems to be a problem to get to work now.

I think it depends ;

1. are the kids sick, or often sick, making it hard to get into the office
2. have circumstances changed, eg mental or physical health?
3. are they hiding due to anxiety or stress - if so, they need support.

if no fundamental issues occur, get the number of office based dates into the contract and get HR to enforce it with you, taking the load off a little.

They’re doing it because they’re getting away with it.

Make the requirements clear re days in office in contract. As in specify the minimum. If they don’t do it terminate their contracts.

The one at my place has no kids. Her husband in very good job earning £120k so she says. Has repeatedly said she doesn't need to work if she chooses. Has a sideline business (which I suspect may be why she is demanding home working).
no mental health issues
services offered if needed and questions around anxiety, depression and mental health asked
tagged every weekend on facebook on the piss
goes horse riding
States that her 'Disability' is preventing her to be able work from office.
special office and home equipment in place but still cannot work in office 1 day a week for a couple of hours despite more room
to manouvre

But in this case the employee has more power as evidenced by his refusal to do as he's told and OP's tolerating this. So no, in this case he did the right thing - he got the pay he wanted and the terms and condition (WFH) he wanted, and it's now down to OP to see if she has the guts to sack him or whether she knows she can't because she knows that it is impossible to find someone as good for the same money who will come in.

//

I've taken this as more OP understandably is uncomfortable micro managing this individual as it's not gonna to be a nice conversation to have but OP seems to have got to a breaking point and may do it.

I'm sure they will find a replacement. Not everyone is a chancer.

Load of rubbish.

In my experience it's more important to young people to be in the office learning from those around them and socialising. Older people are the ones who benefit from wfh.

As for women, it's hardly the progressive option to support a way of working which involves a retreat back away from the public realm and into the domestic sphere for women who are then expected to do even more domestic drudgery and childcare as they are at home anywhere.

@thevegetablesoup yep- I suspect an awful lot of women working from home are indeed picking up even more of the domestic stuff - because you know 'you are at home' -- thing is it will suit many women with young children more if they have to do drop offs and pick ups- I do get that -so I think many will be reluctant to admit that domestically their partners are now expecting dinner on the table etc -

@bakebeans unfortunately I know of someone I worked with a good while ago and that was exactly her reason- a full on side mail order project that needed her to be around stuffing envelopes and posting out- as well as getting a full time salary- there are some cheeky devils out there

I don't think you're being unreasonable here. It was clear in advert and interview what the expectations are, so that's on the employee. Have you had a one to one with the people grumbling/not abiding by the rules? If it were me, I'd have a meeting and make it clear what I was aware of what they were saying and ask them to be open with how they're feeling. It could be there is a personal or professional reason why they are struggling with in office days. If its because they just rather be at home, then you can make it clear that its mandatory for all team members and that's not going to change, so from that point forward they need to come in on those days unless there are exceptional circumstances why they can't. If they don't like it they can leave.
I recently was looking for a new job that was permanently WFH. I refused roles that stated hybrid because I knew that's not what I wanted to do. I managed to find a role that was WFH but I'd occasionally have to go to the office in Europe for meetings (once a month/6 weeks.) That seemed fair, so I accepted the position. I have never not gone in for those meetings, as that was the agreement we made when I was offered the role. If I didn't like it, I would leave. As should your employees if they are no longer happy with the terms.

Just remind people of the rules and tell them they HAVE to stick to them, unless there is a really specific, new, reason not to. (Temporary childcare disaster, not through their lack of planning, or injury making travelling hard, for example.) BEFORE you do this though I would go back and look at what you are actually saying: it's frankly weird that THREE people really want a lot of WFH and have failed to notice that you have said the job can't accommodate much WFH. Maybe you aren't being as clear as you thought, in which case you need to accommodate what you actually SAID you would, not what you WISH you had said you would!