To be losing the will to live with staff who chosen a job with a long commute & then complain about it

[Benibidibici]

I work in a well paid industry - think 6 figure salaries.

We've made really clear through hiring processes that roles are hybrid, not remote, we as a team really get a lot from collaborative working so we expect 2 days a week in the central office. There's flex about which days but we ask that people try to mostly hit the core days of tues/weds/thurs. As a line manager I'm not watching the clock and we are happy to play around with what time people start & finish - eg. One guy leaves at 4.30 to collect his kids by 5.30 & this is fine.

We've hired 3 people this year and made all this clear and they're all grumbling about their commutes and regularly asking to come in less. We offer what we can in terms of flexibility but when we insist we need them in 2 days, they are basically sulking. Its clear one of them in particular never had any intention of coming to the office more than a day or so every 2-3 weeks and expected to get away with remote working.

Its really frustrating. We were honest about what we needed and people just seem to think they can insist.

Why do people do this? One lady has moved 2 hours from our city 3 years ago, and during that time consistently keeps applying for and taking jobs here rather than in the large city where she now lives. Her husband also works in our industry and between them they'll have an income of £200k plus, so they aren't forced to live in a cheaper area.

Its really shit for me to have to go through the unpleasant process of monitoring people's attendance & imposing formal consequences etc (I'm not that kind of manager at all) because they took a job they don't want to turn up for.

What can I do to stop people doing this?

https://amp.smh.com.au/national/how-do-you-grow-an-economy-without-young-people-what-falling-birth-rates-mean-20220609-p5asfy.html

If the hopes of an inheritance are based on property sales then that might not eventuate. If the population starts going into absolute decline then there will be an over supply of housing and prices will fall.

On the other hand, this will make houses more affordable for young families!

The oldest Gen X are already in their late 50s @Usernameundiscovered. Life expectancy is now declining and, given the levels of obesity in our society, are likely to continue that way. My son’s Gen X, he’s likely to inherit well before his 70th birthday, quite probably before he reaches state pension age.

@Laurendelaney1987
Dead on about the poor pay in teaching. But @Usernameundiscovered is also right about poorly behaved children not being managed. There's also the hours and the culture.

What do you do in IT?

*CipherEcho · Today 21:34

Benibidibici · Today 14:27

We have to look at physical samples & discuss/compare as part of the job. They are expensive we don't get like 8 samples that could be sent to individual homes.

It really doesn't work doing it on screen! Its not just bullshit collaboration. We need to be there to do this work. We've already said all the "paperwork" type side of the job can be on screen but we need to do this bit in person, we need to show the trainees how to do this work.

is it possible to create a eg how to guide, that can be used instead of an actual person

No i mean like you need to be able to see the physical samples, touch it, examine it - it doesn't work well over screen, you miss things & visual/tactile aspects are not consistent/accurate enough via screen.

In covid things had to be passed round, couriered between people etc, we lost so much money in extra costs & time delays. You need the group working in the sample in a room together with it.

It’s an employees world and since Covid people just take the piss.

But they’re not ‘actively rejecting’ them. They’re taking the job then whining. This spin that ‘employees control the market’ now is hilarious, if they were then surely they wouldn’t take a job that clearly states they have to come in twice a week?

Part of the issue is what has happened to fares as a result of the decline in commuting post covid. In our case, one return journey to work (50 mins on train plus 25 mins on tube) has gone up to £54.

Consult with HR on setting up a performance plan. You need to formalise the issue.

Sorry I've only read page 1 so far but wanted to just point out that those of you that are so adamant that WFH is vastly superior and only for the middle managers to be able to show their worth are being spectacularly ignorant.

Different jobs require different things, just because you don't have the knowledge or imagination to understand this doesn't make it untrue. And don't you think if workplaces could get away with having no brick and mortar offices they would? Imagine how much money they could save!

Like the civil service? Who’ve worked at home for years. The suddenly government wants them all back 3 days a week. And they haven’t got enough offices.

My stepson had to work in the canteen.

Whilst I understand your point, and on principle agree with it, unfortunately if I want to keep the business going then this just isnt an option financially. All our costs are rising, wages have gone up hugely already in the last few years and we lost a lot of well trained staff due to Brexit and covid.
There are huge numbers of businesses in my sector and those similar to it who are in very real danger of disappearing in the next few years due to these issues.

There was no working from home when I worked at the Department of Health or the Highways Agency @ArseInTheCoOpWindow. There was a lot of having to travel to different offices - I spent half my time on the train to Leeds with DoH.

Young people are going to end up with limited social skills and musculoskeletal problems from sitting alone on the end of their beds, hunched over laptops.

You really think this is the way to go? 🤷

Sorry, forgot to quote 🤦 Was replying to BlueberryVelvet.

I don't think it's only young people, tbh. Plenty of people who put it down to introversion and liking being at home and not being very into "people", but they're actually seeking human interaction all day long...online, where you can vanish whenever you like, take as long as you want to reply and do it all while invisible, inaudible and anonymous.

They're called social skills for a reason. Skills must be learned and can be lost if you don't use them.

I heard a rumour some people socialise with other humans who don't work for the same organisation as them.

They're called social skills for a reason. Skills must be learned and can be lost if you don't use them.
You make a good point. Developing soft skills is a useful workplace, and life, skill.

But then I find it amazing how many mumsnetters will ignore phonecalls and text a reply, won't see family or friends unless it's pencilled in to the minute and booked weeks in advance, and seem to get unusually wound up at the idea of answering the door.

If I was offered a job for 100k I wouldn’t mind coming into the office 2/3 times a week!

Good job this never seems to happen in factories, the world would stop its only ever seen in offices Lucky to have a job, don’t want it when I’ve got it

I feel your pain OP. I put out ads for weekend staff and once they have their foot in the door they suddenly can't work weekends because of childcare/holy day/public transport etc.

Even when I point out that they applied for a weekend position they say they expected flexibility. I honestly think that we are doomed as a society with people being so entitled.

It’s two days a week.

If people wish to reject office based roles that is entirely up to them. There are plenty of remote roles to choose from. But if someone chooses to accept a role based on two days a week office attendance they should bloody well get themselves in for those two days. Not all parts of every job can be done from home. Like it or not, collaboration is essential in many industries.

We used to get people asking for work at the cinema I worked for, I explained we only closed 1day a year, absolutely no problem was usually the reply, all was well for a couple of weeks, then reality sank in & off they went. Out of all the staff 5 people including myself had been on duty for over 20yrs how the world of work has changed.

Some of the roles people describe are simply not very attractive. We have a population that expects a lot of services to be provided outside the 'standard' working week, but not a corresponding number of workers who are willing and able to do it. There's a mismatch. Demand doesn't create supply.

I can see that it's a pain in the arse if you're the person responsible for the rotas etc, but it's likely inevitable. It just didn't used to be as obvious, because workers had fewer choices pre 2020.

It's a market. The value of wages, and working conditions, have declined over 25 years or more. A correction is in progress. Nobody has to do anything.

Yep. Talking about entitlement in this context is pointless really, workers and employers both do what they can get away with. We just got very used to the balance being with the latter for a long time, on there being a large pool of low paid service workers who didn't have better options. Many of the complaints we now hear on MN are basically about that pool shrinking. Filtered through a variety of industries, but the root cause is the same.

@Deliria I agree no one has to do anything but applying for a weekend job then expecting to work everything else apart from said weekends is entitled. A company can't change the needs of the business to suit the needs of the employees. I've worked in retail and hospitality all my life and I can imagine how annoyed people would be if they couldn't go shopping or out for a meal and stay in a hotel over the weekend because all the staff wanted to work Monday to Friday.

If you want Monday to Friday 9-5 then maybe people need to stop applying for sectors that operate 24/7.