To be losing the will to live with staff who chosen a job with a long commute & then complain about it

[Benibidibici]

I work in a well paid industry - think 6 figure salaries.

We've made really clear through hiring processes that roles are hybrid, not remote, we as a team really get a lot from collaborative working so we expect 2 days a week in the central office. There's flex about which days but we ask that people try to mostly hit the core days of tues/weds/thurs. As a line manager I'm not watching the clock and we are happy to play around with what time people start & finish - eg. One guy leaves at 4.30 to collect his kids by 5.30 & this is fine.

We've hired 3 people this year and made all this clear and they're all grumbling about their commutes and regularly asking to come in less. We offer what we can in terms of flexibility but when we insist we need them in 2 days, they are basically sulking. Its clear one of them in particular never had any intention of coming to the office more than a day or so every 2-3 weeks and expected to get away with remote working.

Its really frustrating. We were honest about what we needed and people just seem to think they can insist.

Why do people do this? One lady has moved 2 hours from our city 3 years ago, and during that time consistently keeps applying for and taking jobs here rather than in the large city where she now lives. Her husband also works in our industry and between them they'll have an income of £200k plus, so they aren't forced to live in a cheaper area.

Its really shit for me to have to go through the unpleasant process of monitoring people's attendance & imposing formal consequences etc (I'm not that kind of manager at all) because they took a job they don't want to turn up for.

What can I do to stop people doing this?

in reality we are scattered around the world so half the time you're travelling in to sit on a call with people not even in the same country. HR trotted this one out to me when I complained about being forced to go in on the one day a week nobody else in my department is in. It was just me and the cleaner. I was told that an "unexpected chat at the water cooler could change the course of my day". Whilst the cleaner is nice and we did chat it was hardly a day changer.

@TheEnd24 i totally get this. We do 2 office days per week, which everyone seems to be fine with, but obviously Fridays are like a ghost town. But management insist that one person should be in, just for ‘office cover’ so we have a Friday rota. But the only person you see all day is a chap from Security who pops in to enquire “what on earth are you doing here on a Friday, there’s no one else here!”

I work hybrid
I love WFH and I can see the benefits since the first lock down in 2020., but it would be stupid to have a fully remote workforce for good.
I'm in my 40s, my level of experience can't be compared to new recruits. It is completely unfair to expect they learn everything from home without normal interaction with colleagues.
It's the interaction with other people what foster collaboration. In my view best of both worlds is hybrid. We still need the human factor.

Given that there are so many areas where people are struggling to find people, it is a bit of an employees market so to speak, and so the behaviour you describe is no surprise to me. Then you have the culture in part created by those in Downing Street that rules are not important, despite the stupid notes left by the former Minister for Brexit Opportunities.

I think that fixed days may be the best way forward. I hope the collaboration at that level is really necessary. You also need to be tough on people in a probationary period who try to do less and sulk, and let them go.

What about HR ?
Disciplinary procedure.
Threaten dismissal if they refuse to comply with their terms of service.

We’re finding that temps are very picky about office days, they expect to WFH a few days per week. The world has changed

Depends entirely on your salary. Could be an extra grand a month for a couple of days a week travel for skilled City job

Let's assume for the sake of argument that your prediction about AI is right. What exactly does that have to do with people's work conditions now? If you're going to be replaced by AI, that's going to happen regardless of where you do your work now. You aren't going to keep a job that AI could do because you've gone into an office. If anything, it makes more sense to try and avoid incurring commuting costs now, save up as much of your higher salary as you can!

My question is how are you going to adapt your business, when the incoming labour government makes working from home a right?

I'm very interested in hearing more about this. How specifically are women disadvantaged by hybrid working?

Has it said it’s going to do that? All I’ve heard about is a draft green paper involving Right to Disconnect, which is as vague as it sounds. Given that the shadow cabinet has spent a lot of time and effort getting business on side, it seems extremely unlikely that it’s going to undo all that work with legislation enshrining the right to work from home in employment law.

So what? Just like every rational company tries to "play the system" by paying as little as possible and getting everyone to work longer hours than contracted.

£320 per month to commute from here to London, 24 hours per month wasted commuting, to earn £1000 less £450 tax, less £320.

If I had a "skilled City job" I would want a hell of a lot more than £330 a month after costs to waste 24 hours on trains and tubes.

Whilst I agree that in some areas there is a shortage of candidates and employers have to be open minded- it's an absolute fallacy that this is the case in every industry (at all levels) especially if it's an interesting job in an interesting/trendy /better paid industry - I know this from experience of internal recruiting.

What?

Sooo … you find yourself on the wrong end of disciplinary proceedings and get the sack?

@Eybyegum my sons 24 year old girlfriend has just turned down a role that was mainly WFH, nor did she want a role where only 2 of a team out of 12 might be in some days- she wanted a job with a team where the norm is in the office at least 3 or 4 days a week, occasional after work drinks, birthday cakes and all that stuff-we are all different!! One biggie I guess is she doesn't have kids, has no more than a 25 minute commute and likes being around other people

I don’t think offices like that exist any more?!

Of course they do. Walk round the City of London Tuesday/Wednesday/Thursday and the tubes, Pret, street food markets are full to bursting, there are guys doing the round on bikes delivering fruit bowl/breakfast/lunch deliveries, and the pubs/winebars are overflowing on a Thursday night with colleagues having a swift after work drink/birthday/leaving do.

@YoullCatchYourDeathInTheFog yep- that's what she wants- my son (her boyfriend) has similar- he does 1 day at home

To be honest it works well for some and I can see why many want it - but as my H says he is fed up of not being able to reach many of the mainly younger 'less committed' colleagues who seem to have vast amounts of
unreachable time and are have royally taken the piss- I'm afraid some people do see it as a slackers charter and spoil it for everyone else and in some jobs it's harder to quantify than say a call centre or certain number of sales leads etc

Your “collaborative working” approach universally negatively impacts women and the environment and so perhaps listen to your staff rather than imposing arbitrary quotas on them.

In my company we have an very similar policy to OP’s organisation, with slightly more flexibility.

I can only speak for my experience, but in my office, female employees - mostly mothers - abide religiously by the policy, even though it costs them more in childcare etc. It’s senior men who take the absolute piss. We’ve recently had one decide to move 3 hours away and announce he’ll ‘try’ to come in once a fortnight for 2 days. He’s rather more dispensable than he thinks he is, though.

what Does the collaborative working mean and look like in your team OP?

if people can pick and choose which days they are in how does that impact on the collaboration? Surely unless all in at same time then there’s always going to need to be the ability to collaborate flexibly and why can’t you collaborate online?

I feel like it’s often managers say to justify insisting on people in, but isn’t a legitimate reason. I don’t mind going in but Often I’ll go into the office and no one speaks to each other, certainly no ‘collaboration’ and people will sit on teams meetings despite being in the same room. I think it’s often more about managers feeling in control. Or an assumption wfh means not working.

I get so much more done at home; the office is so loud and distracting.

I think you should focus on your employees roles and objectives - are they delivering ? If they’re otherwise performing and are telling you how they prefer to work then why not just accommodate that?

They do in the public sector, particularly the NHS.

@Crikeyalmighty do you have your own experience to recount? Or just your DH's second hand opinion?