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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Buy BTL house for postcode for secondary? Please help

331 replies

Schoolhousemystery · 15/12/2023 12:26

Please tell me if I got it right or wrong in my head! I think there is probably something I have not considered well.

We live in a house which we bought and we have a mortgage.

We have saved around £100k which we can use for a deposit for another house.

Our kids are early KS1 years but we don't have a good comp secondary around - we live in a heavy grammar area.

Would it be a strategic move to buy a second property close to a good comp secondary, have a buy-to-let mortgage on it , and use this address for the secondary applications? It will work well for most grammars anyway.

Would it matter that someone else would live in there as the mortgage would be buy-to-let? If we get a place to that school we will move there but since the primary is next door to our house we wouldn't like to move from now. And we don't want the money to sit in our account forever.

This house would be used from us as a back-up if our kids won't do well in the grammar results.

AIBU - There is something I am missing and we can't use an address that someone else lives even if we own that property

AINBU - You can use the address of your hypothetical BTL property

OP posts:
izimbra · 15/12/2023 14:18

It's fraud and it's immoral.

Always flummoxed by how moralistic most mumsnetters are, except when it comes to issues around the education of their children, where lying and cheating to piggyback your child into a place at a more desirable school is seen as ok. It's not ok.

TheShellBeach · 15/12/2023 14:19

I honestly had no idea how bad this is, and we are not intending to do it

So why start a thread about it if you're not intending to do it?
Hmm

DragonFly98 · 15/12/2023 14:22

Hmm can you fraudulently apply for a school place. It's a difficult one but I am going to go with no.

Almahart · 15/12/2023 14:23

A neighbour of mine did this, got reported and got her child's place withdrawn a week before year 7 started. Ended up at the local comp with my child, she was not best pleased. The local school is perfectly good imo, just not a fancy pants Oxbridge results factory.

GreenLaurel · 15/12/2023 14:26

I live in a grammar school area. The comps want lots of proof that you have a long lease or sold your previous house etc. They’re aware of what people do in these circumstances.

Tiredalwaystired · 15/12/2023 14:29

Meanwhile a kid who genuinely lives in catchment is forced to find a school further away because you’re rich and can game the system.

What shit behaviour.

If you’re that bothered, move nearer the secondary school when your oldest is in year 4 or 5 and stay there.

Kendodd · 15/12/2023 14:30

If I read the OP correctly, she plans to actually move to the new house they buy and live in it, she just wants to stay in her current house for the primary years. She said the new house works for both comps and grammars so I don't know why she's getting such a hard time. She's not trying to cheat anything, she just planning her house move years in advance.

For what it's worth OP when my eldest started primary, we had a house purchase going through. The house we lived in when we applied was 30 miles away from the school we applied to. We used the new house address for the application and we didn't even own the house at the time. The only query/check we had was an email from the council asking if we'd moved into the new house yet. We also had a Ukrainian living with us for a bit. I applied for a school place for her child while they were still in Ukraine and hadn't even come here yet.

Tiredalwaystired · 15/12/2023 14:31

Schoolhousemystery · 15/12/2023 12:53

I came here for some serious advice. When I started the thread I didn't have a clue about all this.

Please try to help and don't be judgemental. I am not stupid enough to do something illegal, I am just trying to understand the options.

So, what people do? If we relocate on time, then we would have to live to this property for the duration of year 6 essentially? So to move the summer before the applications?

And as I have a younger kid who would be year 3 in our current primary, would I have to drive 30' back and forth everyday for this year?

Is this what people do to secure a good school for their kids?

In simple terms, yes, this is what you would need to do.

Or move your youngest to a primary near your preferred secondary.

Kendodd · 15/12/2023 14:35

Tiredalwaystired · 15/12/2023 14:29

Meanwhile a kid who genuinely lives in catchment is forced to find a school further away because you’re rich and can game the system.

What shit behaviour.

If you’re that bothered, move nearer the secondary school when your oldest is in year 4 or 5 and stay there.

She says in the OP that she's going to live in the house so her kid will be an in-catchment child.

Pipsquiggle · 15/12/2023 14:36

Let's not berate OP. She's got it. It can be difficult navigating all this stuff.

SlightlygrumpyBettyswaitress · 15/12/2023 14:39

You use your resources to buy a house in the best postcode before secondary applications. Its as simple as that. It sounds like you should do this when your eldest is in year 5.
If you live in a grammar school area you can't have your cake and eat it.
We relocated (200 miles) when dd3 was finishing year 4. We bought a house in the right location for the secondary school we wanted. We were lucky to be able to do that. But we did have to keep fingers crossed with the Primary application.

Mirabai · 15/12/2023 14:40

Pipsquiggle · 15/12/2023 13:55

@Mirabai IMO the problem with private schools in grammar school areas, they tend to be pretty mediocre as the grammars have creamed off the bright local DC.

Unless they could send them further afield

Show quote history

Sorry but that’s nonsense, Kent has all its grammars and excellent private schools as well. Equally there are grammars in London and also some of the most academic private schools in the country.

Grammars don’t take all the bright children in a borough anyway, there are plenty who didn’t dry or didn’t get in and go to a comprehensive instead.

Cosyblankets · 15/12/2023 14:41

Rent a house in the catchment area and use that address

SlightlygrumpyBettyswaitress · 15/12/2023 14:42

You also need to be wary of sibling preference. In our LA it is now siblings in catchment, children in catchment, siblings out of catchment. Your plan to move back once eldest is in might not work.

caramelsauce · 15/12/2023 14:44

I’m confused why everyone saying it’s illegal and immoral?

OP is saying that if children don’t get into the grammar schools where she currently lives she wants them to go to a better secondary school in another area and would then move there? Where is this illegal and immoral??

KathrynWheel · 15/12/2023 14:47

You cannot live in two properties at the same time. One has to be nominated as your primary residence. You will have a Capital GainsTax liability when you eventually sell one of them. You need advice from an Accountant about this.

Ireolu · 15/12/2023 14:51

Rent close by 6 months-1yr prior to application then move when you get a place

Lanneederniere · 15/12/2023 14:55

OP, you are highly disingenuous. My CF house buyers played the "[one of us] is not from this country card" but were anything but innocent about the system that they blatantly gamed to do exactly what you were describing.

shepherdsangeldelight · 15/12/2023 14:56

caramelsauce · 15/12/2023 14:44

I’m confused why everyone saying it’s illegal and immoral?

OP is saying that if children don’t get into the grammar schools where she currently lives she wants them to go to a better secondary school in another area and would then move there? Where is this illegal and immoral??

You have to apply for schools based on the place you are actually living in.

Not the place you intend to move to once they've got a place.

It's to stop wealthy parents (like OP) gaming the system.

MegMez · 15/12/2023 14:59

We were priced out of the town where my husband and I grew up because people moved to the area for the good schools. We live in another town with cheaper housing, we still are part of the community in our home town through sports teams, church etc but our children don't and won't go to school there because we don't live there. It makes me so sad to read about rich people playing a property game to buy their way into a "good school". My husband and I work full time, we both went to uni, we volunteer, we work hard, we're just gentrified out of the area we'd love to live in because it's in the same town as our parents and friends.

The address you use for school applications has to be the address that you live in. So you either have to move or chance your arm with applying to a school out of catchment. Or, and maybe this is radical, send them to the closest school to you. If it's not good enough for your kids, it shouldn't be good enough for anybody's child and you could be part of making that change.

It's up to you what you do. Just wanted to share what it's like from a home that's not in the town with the good schools. Oh and our kids are doing brilliantly even though they don't go to the "good school", they're bright, empathetic, community spirited, sporty, creative lovely humans who will do grand in life even though their parents haven't had the financial capacity to save £100k.

BrimfulOfMash · 15/12/2023 15:01

You would have to move into the house before the schools application date, and have your Council Tax and Child Benefit records attached to that house. So yes, you would need to be in the house for the first term of Yr 6.

Presumably if your Dc does well in the grammar test, distance and where you live is not such an issue? You could apply for the grammar from the second house?

So I would say, buy the house as a BTL.

Move before Yr 6, and deal with the journey.

Your child does the grammar test from that address, schools applications from that address.

You will know what school your child has on March 1st and can then ever stay in your second house or move back, or whatever.

BUT - be careful. Tenants don't have to move out when you want them to! It can take months to evict tenants, and the law is changing on their side!

Also, if you sell one of the houses you will be due to pay capital gains tax on any increase in value. Buying a second home costs a higher stamp duty and you will be taxed on the rental income.

And I agree with PP - have a really good look at the high school you would likely be allocated. Exam results don't compare with selective schools for the very reason that grammars are selective, and the highest scoring exam candidates have been diverted to the grammar. It doesn't mean that the education is less good or that your individual child will not do well / meet their potential.

Pipsquiggle · 15/12/2023 15:02

Mirabai · 15/12/2023 14:40

Sorry but that’s nonsense, Kent has all its grammars and excellent private schools as well. Equally there are grammars in London and also some of the most academic private schools in the country.

Grammars don’t take all the bright children in a borough anyway, there are plenty who didn’t dry or didn’t get in and go to a comprehensive instead.

Show quote history

Glad Kent has good private schools. I have been underwhelmed in Bucks. certainly not worth the £5-6k per term fees.

I would say the vast majority of local bright DC who pass the 11+ go to the grammars.

London only has a handful of grammars which are notoriously hard to get into so hardly reflective of a county wide system like Kent. No surprise it also has a load of private schools - it's London

TravelInHope · 15/12/2023 15:02

I’m getting the popcorn in for this one. The level of entitlement…

forgotmyusername1 · 15/12/2023 15:02

if you have that much money to burn go private

can go where you like then

CurlewKate · 15/12/2023 15:03

@Pipsquiggle IMO the problem with private schools in grammar school areas, they tend to be pretty mediocre as the grammars have creamed off the bright local DC." Hmm. I suspect King's Canterbury , among others, might contest that!

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