Page 11 | Buy BTL house for postcode for secondary? Please help

Schoolhousemystery · 2023-12-15T12:26:49+00:00

Please tell me if I got it right or wrong in my head! I think there is probably something I have not considered well. We live in a house which we bought and we have a mortgage. We have saved around £100k which we can use for a deposit for another house. Our kids are early KS1 years but we don't have a good comp secondary around - we live in a heavy grammar area. Would it be a strategic move to buy a second property close to a good comp secondary, have a buy-to-let mortgage on it , and use this address for the secondary applications? It will work well for most grammars anyway. Would it matter that someone else would live in there as the mortgage would be buy-to-let? If we get a place to that school we will move there but since the primary is next door to our house we wouldn't like to move from now. And we don't want the money to sit in our account forever. This house would be used from us as a back-up if our kids won't do well in the grammar results. AIBU - There is something I am missing and we can't use an address that someone else lives even if we own that property AINBU - You can use the address of your hypothetical BTL property

WhickDittington · 15/12/2023 16:41

Roundycippae · 15/12/2023 16:11

How about - move into the area, and become part of that local school
community. That’s really what helps state schools get good, parents living in the area, as part of the community, interested in the area/school/ocal stuff- invested.
Not people from miles away, driving their kids to the ‘good’ school while showing zero interest in the community around it.

This. Excellent advice.

Pipsquiggle · 15/12/2023 16:42

forgotmyusername1 · 15/12/2023 16:28

my local authority have got rid of sibling priority above local children as so many were moving into area for child one and then moving back out in the belief subsequent children would all get a place.

lots of upset parents on facebook with 'how am I meant to get two children to school when they are 40 mins apart' posts come selection day

@forgotmyusername1 this is the same in my area. Catchment usurps siblings.

People never read the admissions priority criteria - they assume because they have 1 DC in, that the rest will follow. I know several 2 or 3 primary school families.

Cosyblankets · 15/12/2023 16:44

Densol57 · 15/12/2023 15:59

As I said, whilst I was refurbishing it. You can it if its temporary and you also have a property elsewhere. I do it with all my properties.

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Did you need to get permission off the bank to do this? Everything I've read says you can't live in it. We just insured ours as unoccupied and paid the council tax while renovating

UbiquitousPenguin · 15/12/2023 16:46

I have known parents do what you are describing to get their DC into my DC's grammar school. The places were granted, they were found out and the places were subsequently revoked. Aside from the morality of it, it would be a very stupid thing to do.

Densol57 · 15/12/2023 16:47

Cosyblankets · 15/12/2023 16:44

Did you need to get permission off the bank to do this? Everything I've read says you can't live in it. We just insured ours as unoccupied and paid the council tax while renovating

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Its written into the terms and conditions of the mortgage offer 👍🏼

andHelenknowsimmiserablenow · 15/12/2023 16:49

UbiquitousPenguin · 15/12/2023 16:46

I have known parents do what you are describing to get their DC into my DC's grammar school. The places were granted, they were found out and the places were subsequently revoked. Aside from the morality of it, it would be a very stupid thing to do.

Agree. It is totally unfair to kids who miss out on a place at a school they live near because someone else took it fraudulently

AngelAurora · 15/12/2023 16:55

Send them to their local state school instead of being a snob.

sep135 · 15/12/2023 16:57

I have a feeling that my local (very oversubscribed) grammar school in Bucks changed the rules so any second home within 20 miles of another home was disregarded. I guess to deter people from doing this.

andHelenknowsimmiserablenow · 15/12/2023 16:59

AngelAurora · 15/12/2023 16:55

Send them to their local state school instead of being a snob.

OP is talking about a comp, not a grammar.

DragonMama3 · 15/12/2023 16:59

UbiquitousPenguin · 15/12/2023 16:46

I have known parents do what you are describing to get their DC into my DC's grammar school. The places were granted, they were found out and the places were subsequently revoked. Aside from the morality of it, it would be a very stupid thing to do.

I've also known this done and in one case the parent was an hour away. No places were rescinded.

DragonMama3 · 15/12/2023 17:00

Are some LA's more exacting?

StarlightLime · 15/12/2023 17:17

KingsleyBorder · 15/12/2023 16:02

What are you on about? I’m talking about people who do not own their own homes, my point is that people who rent and can never get on the property ladder are just as entitled to education based on place of residence than people who own their own homes. That is why the authorities look at residence not ownership.

Did you think I was advising her to rent near the school or something?’

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Nobody has disputed people who rent their homes being entitled to education for their children, wtf?!

But you can't use a rental address while you already own property (as op does).
Not sure what you're finding so hard to grasp?

DragonMama3 · 15/12/2023 17:24

is there any legislation?

LeaveBritneyAlone · 15/12/2023 17:35

andHelenknowsimmiserablenow · 15/12/2023 16:25

We live in a great primary school catchment area road, but just a tiny bit out of the catchment area for the secondary school.
Many people buy in our road to get their kids into the primary school and then, when the eldest is in year 5, sell up and move to the catchment area of the secondary school, even if that means driving back to the primary school every day for the younger ones, knowing their sibling place at the secondary school is already in place.
There are other people who do what you proposed with a buy to let property, but believe me, you may face hostility from other school parent neighbours whos kids have missed out on the catchment of the secondary school, when they find out yours got a place fraudulently. They might even report you for it.

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I think this is such a shame because in year 6 in most schools kids get the ‘grown up‘ responsibilities such as a walking home from school and it really brings them on IME and can only be done if you live in walking distance.

BestBadger · 15/12/2023 17:35

AngelAurora · 15/12/2023 16:55

Send them to their local state school instead of being a snob.

Grammar schools raise attainment by a third of a grade on average. Their pupils are more likely to go to University and more likely to earn more as adults. So you can see why parents are keen to send them.

But you're right, it is based largely on perception and snobbery. I'd expect a school packed with the most affluent and able students to get better grades, more than a third of a grade more certainly.

They also, possibly more than private schools, increase inequality in the local area compared to comprehensives areas which are similar in other ways.

They are unfair (kids of the wealthiest 10% are 50% more likely to get in) reward wealth rather than ability and, like private education, drain resources from everyone else.

They should have stayed banned, & like Finland, we should have banned private education at the same time.

Tough choices for some parents and no choices for others.

LeaveBritneyAlone · 15/12/2023 17:37

StarlightLime · 15/12/2023 17:17

Nobody has disputed people who rent their homes being entitled to education for their children, wtf?!

But you can't use a rental address while you already own property (as op does).
Not sure what you're finding so hard to grasp?

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you can't use a rental address while you already own property

Well technically you’re wrong. you use whatever address you reside in.

I have a rental property I don’t live in. And I rent the home I live in. I didn’t use my owned home to apply for schools because, with it being 200 miles away, it way have been too much of a school run for me to bear

Mirabai · 15/12/2023 17:45

They also, possibly more than private schools, increase inequality in the local area compared to comprehensives areas which are similar in other ways.

This is the mantra in the U.K., yet Germany, half of which was communist not so long ago, and the other half more socialist politically than the U.K., has its gymnasiums and technical schools without any obvious impact on equality, in fact resulting in lower youth employment and a better trained technical workforce. They also have free universities.

NalafromtheLionKing · 15/12/2023 17:48

If I were you, I would just sit tight in your current property and make sure your children put in enough effort to give them a decent shot at the grammar schools.

Then, if that plan fails, you can consider relocating to another area but it seems overkill to buy another property on the off chance that you need the schools in that area unless you are extremely rich (which I’m guessing isn’t the case if you would need a mortgage for each property and are not considering an independent school).

IncompleteSenten · 15/12/2023 17:51

I'd ask myself is my children's education worth the drive.

If it is, then move there. That way you're not breaking any rules.

HollaHolla · 15/12/2023 18:00

WhickDittington · 15/12/2023 16:41

This. Excellent advice.

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Definitely this. I live in Scotland, where we seem to have less of these shenanigans, and genuinely befuddled by this postcode gamble shit. Can’t you just go to your nearest school, and if it doesn’t work out, then look to move? Or have I massively simplified that?

Also, I do get concerned about all this tutoring for 11+. Surely if you have to get so much tutoring for that, how do you manage at the school, if you’re not continuing with that tutoring? This hot housing of 10/11/12 year olds has to be contributing to the stress felt by so many young people. Can’t you just let them go in, do their best, and get a realistic assessment of their capabilities? I remember sitting the 11+, and not having any specific prep for it. Just getting a view of where we actually were….

Roguebludger · 15/12/2023 18:05

Buy the new house. Rent it out when the kids are in primary. Move in to it when they are in yr5 so that you can lawfully apply to the secondary that you want. Rent out the primary school house whilst you live in the secondary house.

greengreengrass25 · 15/12/2023 18:06

Yes Holla Holla

It has become ridiculous

Micromanaged children

StarlightLime · 15/12/2023 18:16

LeaveBritneyAlone · 15/12/2023 17:37

you can't use a rental address while you already own property

Well technically you’re wrong. you use whatever address you reside in.

I have a rental property I don’t live in. And I rent the home I live in. I didn’t use my owned home to apply for schools because, with it being 200 miles away, it way have been too much of a school run for me to bear

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No, not wrong. As per my original post, you can't own property within reasonable distance (so, commutable) of your rental and have the rental accepted as your address by the admissions team 🤷🏻‍♀️

LeaveBritneyAlone · 15/12/2023 18:30

StarlightLime · 15/12/2023 18:16

No, not wrong. As per my original post, you can't own property within reasonable distance (so, commutable) of your rental and have the rental accepted as your address by the admissions team 🤷🏻‍♀️

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Well no because that’s not where you reside.

But that’s not what you said - you said “you can't use a rental address while you already own property”

Hughs · 15/12/2023 18:47

Grammar schools raise attainment by a third of a grade on average.

Is that all? It seems very low, hardly worth the bother and the tutoring costs.