To want this man to face justice *TW sexual violence*

[Arghcantthinkofaname]

I posted about this about 9 months ago under a different name but keep revisiting in my head and still unsure what to do so hoping to get help from the Mumsnet community again.

Basically I was very badly sexually assaulted by someone and at the time I didn’t give full details and many posters were confused about why I didn’t report him. I think I’m ready to give a more full version now as I’d really appreciate advice.

A while back I had a friend with benefits. A slightly younger work colleague. He’s a few years younger but a lot junior. I was promoted very high when I was quite young so hold a senior position in the company. We work for a global company, he lives in a different country but when there were company get togethers a few times stuff happened. He doesn’t work for me or anything (different team) but in my business it would be really frowned on two people fraternising. I’m not sure if I could get fired for it, but it would definitely harm my career.

So far, so inadvisable. I regret it a lot though at the time figured both single consenting adults, no harm done.

Earlier this year there was a very drunken conference in a different country (this bit is important - it wasn’t the UK and it wasn’t his home country either). We’d gone to my room and he just sort of flipped with no provocation. Violently attacked me, raped me and strangled me until I passed out. I came to having a seizure, foaming at the mouth etc, he punched me and left.

The next day I had no memory of the event. None. I thought I just had the worst hangover of my life as my head was banging, trouble breathing. Called in sick to work and got an earlier flight back home. The next few days the neck bruising came out (who knew, it doesn’t show at first) and the memories came back. I blocked him on all channels but ever since then we still work for the same company though i can avoid him most of the time.

More important info: this man is incredibly, incredibly popular at work. He comes across as the nicest person ever. He’s always helpful and friendly. Everyone thinks he’s a saint. I feel like I’m in a double universe where i’m the only one who knows what a creep he is.

Having had the chance to reflect and discuss with a therapist, I think he’s a very dangerous man. I don’t think he was intending to kill me but I think he was ok with me dying if that happened. He had already finished the rape when he strangled me, so I think that concluding with an act of torture is in and of itself part of his fantasy which is beyond scary.

I’m sure he’ll kill someone, or has already. I’m also sure that the nice guy act is very carefully cultivated as now i’m watching, I’ve seen the mask slip a few times (he’s told people inconsistent things about his family for example). I also think he may have done something similar to another co-worker. A few years back on a drunken night he offered to take her back to her hotel as she was wasted. No one questioned it as he is such a nice sweet guy that’s the kind if thing he’d do, offer to help people out. She left the company with little notice a few weeks later. I don’t have this woman’s number and she lives in another different country. I have no way of contacting her.

So my question is… what do I do?

I checked and I can’t report it in the UK as the crime occurred elsewhere.

I really really don’t think it’s feasible for me to travel to the country where it happened where I don’t speak the language and walk into a police station and report it. Especially as the guy doesn’t live there anyway. AND this country doesn’t have anonymity laws around sexual violence victims so the details could / would be public. I have kids and wouldn’t want them to see that.

I could travel to his country to tell the authorities there but… with what evidence. I think they’d think i was nuts if i walked into a police station and asked them to watch some guy in case he kills anyone.

I thought about telling HR at work and getting him sacked. But then I could get sacked too. He could claim i pressured and harassed him. Not true but if my accusations could get him fired, his could get me fired too.

I thought about making it common knowledge at work that he’s a creep but honestly if I told anyone they would think I was nuts. People LOVE him. Before this happened I myself wouldn’t hear a bad word against him. Also, again, I could get fired.

I’ve been looking for a new job but it’s hard in my field with not much available and i can’t be without work or take a pay cut as i’m a single mum.

So. What do I do to protect women from this creep?

YANBU - do something, and here’s an idea.
YABU - there is nothing you can do, put it to bed and move on.

I don't think you're in the least bit unreasonable, what a shockingly horrible thing for you to have been put through. I'm sorry, I really don't have an idea of what to advise.

I'm sure that wiser heads soon will and I wish you well, whatever you decide.

Bloody hell that is so awful. I’m so sorry you went through this.

I just want to applaud your strength, Jesus what a thing to have to go through. I have no knowledge in this area, but if I were you, I’d find a new job first, then contact your HR department when you leave. I’d also advise the police in his home country and the country where it happpened. I’d probably not travel there to do it though, I may even contact a uk solicitor to do it on my behalf. I would then feel if someone else were to complain or suffer in the same way something could be done with your evidence too. I’m so sorry for your experience, you sound very strong.

An independent solicitor could be a really good shout. I’d just want the police to know if there was another complaint about him. Really I want to stop him doing this to anyone else in the first place but I just can’t think of a way.

I am so sorry that happened to you. Could you go to the police here for advice anyway? I would also put it on record in his home country. He may have previous which might trigger an investigation.

Regarding HR they couldn’t sack you for reporting a rape and attempted murder.

Is it likely you will see him again?

Though the need to travel i think is real. I think in most countries like in the uk you need to make accusations in person.

Yeah but they could sack me for the consensual friends with benefits bit before. He has texts etc. I think they could consider it gross misconduct on my part as a senior person in the company.

And yes I still see him at conferences and stuff. Just avoid him like the plague. He doesn’t attempt to make conversation as I’ve made clear to him he needs to stay the hell away from me.

I think your only realistic option is to speak to your company HR and make it an internal matter. Do you have any evidence from the time? Did you photograph your injuries, see a doctor, write down what you remembered at the time at all? Witnesses earlier in the evening who saw you together or saw you in distress afterwards (although if you don't have evidence of injuries, sadlt witnesses that you voluntarily left with him could well not be helpful)? If not... I hate to say it, but I would think through the possible consequences of going to HR carefully, especially since you had a prior consensual relationship with him. These things shouldn't matter, but in the court of people's heads, they do.

Whatever you do, please contact Rape Crisis and get yourself some support and counselling. Also look for another job - the last thing you need is enforced contact with this man. I wish you all the peace and healing in the world. Your only responsibility is your responsibility to yourself to heal and recover as best you can.

I am so so sorry to hear of what you went through. I really wish this wasn't a message I had to type as it's very much 'sad but true...'

Even if this happened in the UK and you reported him it's likely absolutely nothing would happen. There's no physical evidence now, no communications which confirm this happened and it would literally be your word against his.

My ex violently abused me over a period of years (including sexual assault and strangulation). He was let off each time due to a lack of evidence. At one point we complained to the senior police officer in our local station who looked me in the eye and said (amongst other things) 'you could have done that to yourself' referring to the state of me when the arresting officers arrived.

The UK is meant to be seen as a being at the forefront of having a functioning legal system, yet only 1.3% of rape cases ever result in a conviction. This includes cases where there is irrefutable evidence e.g. stranger DNA, so imagine trying to prove this happened when you've willingly had sex with that person on however many occasions.

In terms of putting stuff on record. Lots of people say this, and did when I posted about this earlier in the year under a different thread. But, genuine question, how would that actually work?

As far as I know police don’t keep databases of he-said she-said type gossip of unfounded accusations? If they did we’d all have files on us an inch thick! How I think it works is you have to formally make an accusation of a crime and there needs to be some level of evidence for it to be properly logged?

Anyone with insight into this I’d really appreciate.

I am truly sorry this happened to you and I’d be surprised if it was his first offence.

You have no evidence and it would cause you professional harm to report him to hr but would it be possible to make an anonymous statement to hr giving details of the attack without specifying where and exactly when this happened? I’ve no idea if they would keep the information on file or pay it any attention but it’s the only action I can think of that doesn’t leave you open to risk.

Take care.

Thanks for response. It’s so helpful.

Of course the ideal would have been if I’d actually remembered what happened (memory loss due to some brain damage sustained) and could have gone to the cops in that country when there was CCTV, I imagine would have picked up my screams etc. Alas. Shoulda woulda coulda eh. There’s a hospital report from back in the UK but as I’d looked up that the UK police say you can’t report foreign crimes to them I also didn’t go. Now i think about it they could have done full exams etc and collected evidence to send abroad but I really wasn’t thinking straight for quite a while after. Shock and brain damage. Memories from the few months after also super hazy.

Yeah but they could sack me for the consensual friends with benefits bit before. He has texts etc. I think they could consider it gross misconduct on my part as a senior person in the company.

IMO this makes him even more dangerous as he planned how to keep you under control before he attacked you; and its unlikely this is his first assault.

I think you should talk to a solicitor who understand the dynamics and behaviour of sexual predators.

I think that’s 100% correct and something I’ve reflected on a lot.

Bottom line : get another job.

It is very hard to read op - how sorry I am for you. What an animal, and how terrifying.

OP - in the kindest possible way - it seems like you will lose everything if you follow this up. Your job first and foremost. There is no doubt that a popular guy like that will present you as someone who abused your position, he felt he had to, etc. You accuse him because he dumped you, and so on.

If that happens, will it follow you in your future professional life? Can you afford to lose your job? Will it be easy to get a new job?

Is it possibe to look for a new job and once you have one -then let HR know the real reason for leaving?

Most of all, I want to say that you are not responsible for his future actions. Don't persuade yourself that it is on you. It is not.

Your responsibility is to yourself and to your children.

You might sit and wait. You might report to the police in the UK - if anything does happen in a future time you would have that to draw on.

I am so sorry op. So utterly sorry.

The workplace situation sounds complicated. I think your workplace has a legal duty to deal with complaints of sexual assault (even if they happened abroad) if you are UK based but I'm not a lawyer.

Do you have any messages saved from him - would they show that he approached you for a relationship? Did he let you know such an approach would be welcome?
You could also consider talking to Rape Crisis, and ask them to talk to ACAS and the police about him, but to protect your anonymity.

Okay, but: to what end? A solicitor on OP's side might well be helpful as a support to reporting him within the company and as an advocate. But beyond that...

My rapist, despite almost certainly being a repeat offender, is still out there. Like most. There was nothing I could feasibly do to protect other people from him, so my only real choice was to put my own recovery first and not to engage in formal processes which would have added to my trauma without any realistic prospect of finding against him.

Contact your local SARC and see what they advise.

I think unfortunately there are very limited options available to you.

Reporting in this country: the police can't (with a very few statutory exceptions - I think maybe child-related sex crimes) deal with a crime that happened in another country, and can't advise on other countries' legal systems.

Reporting in his home country: again, the crime was outside their jurisdiction. There is a possibility they have a system for recording reports that don't necessarily result in a prosecution (similar to our Claire's law/Sarah's law), but that would depend on the country. Worth investigating, but may not lead anywhere.

Reporting in the country it happened: this would be the ideal, but rape is notoriously gruelling to prosecute everywhere. Doing it in another language and unfamiliar system, some time after it happened, with the suspect not resident and needing to be extradited is likely to be traumatising and unsuccessful.

So that leaves reporting to HR. Ideally you would, but I completely understand your reasons for reluctance. I don't think the suggestion above of reporting anonymously would fly. Getting a new job and reporting when you leave is probably your most practical option.

Do please try to get therapy and support, if you've not done so already. Maybe as part od that someone will be able to come up with another avenue for action. And also talk to your GP if you didn't at the time - this may provide some evidence if you do find a way to make some sort of more puclic report one day, and will certainly help them to support you with ongoing problems from the attack.

I had to vote YABU because I haven't got any ideas that would allow me to vote YANBU, but I hope you find a way to make him face action. There's a genuine risk to you professionally though, even if he was convicted it's highly unlikely there would be no fallout with your employer or fellow employees. I think whether you go after him or not you need to consider changing employer for your own sake.

I agree with the pp about getting a new job and reporting it after you leave. You may want to mention your colleague who left as that may reach out to her (or they may not given that HR are there to protect the company not the employee).

Im sorry that, like the majority of women who suffer violence, there is no closure or redress. It’s just something we have to live with and bury in ourselves.

Women who have experienced it will know that those men who are the lovely, friendly, life & soul, are as capable of violence as those who give off creepy vibes.

There is nothing legal I can suggest and I usually advocate a let sleeping dogs lie attitude but he deserves some form of retribution. I am so sorry this has happened to you. He sounds a complete predator.

If this was the telly, there would be some way of using a burner phone, rerouted IP address and a public smear campaign that revealed his true character. Sadly, in reality all that would lead to was unemployment for you.

I think I would be trying to find contact details for the woman who left. Her name and linked in would probably get you some leads. Your word against his is one thing but two women saying similar things is another. Then I would approach HR, they would be on thin ice with trying to discipline you for what was clearly him grooming you before this attack.

I’m so so sorry this happened to you. He is a terrifyingly dangerous man. And I’m sorry that I agree with PPs about unfortunately not being able to do much about it now. It sounds like he manipulates everything in his life and has probably cultivated his likeable persona to make it easier for him to get away with attacking women. The only thing I could think of is contacting the other woman you mentioned. Maybe on LinkedIn or social media or through other colleagues if you know her name? Maybe delicately hint that something happened with this man and you wonder if the same happened to her. If 2 women report him then it is more likely people will believe you. You should also get a new job and make sure you never have to see this man again. Again, I’m so sorry that it happened to you and sorry that you can’t find a way to get justice. I hope you manage to heal from this

I think the chances of me getting in touch with the other lady @Lifecanbebeautiful12 and @Tooshytoshine are pretty low. I did try the main channels but came up short. She didn’t keep in touch with anyone at work - she was very junior (a grad) and basically after that night out she acted weirdly for a few weeks then quit with no notice. If I (one of the bosses) reached out to her I imagine she’d think she was in trouble and wouldn’t respond. I only put it together afterwards when I was racking my brain trying to think of some kind of clue i could hang onto that might have indicated what kind of man he was. I’m still cross with myself for being so naive.