Sensationalist reporting - whipping up resentment towards education bills for complex SEN placements

[SoFuckingTired]

AIBU to say that the purpose of articles such as this is to foster resentment towards disabled children/young people? Clearly I'm naive but I'm surprised and disappointed that the BBC would report in this way. Yes £2.5m is a lot, but when you actually read further this is a placement for very complex SEN/behaviour spanning several years

Council billed £2.5m for pupil with special needs.

I couldn’t agree with you more SalmonWellington it’s an 100% avoidable national tragedy. Cameron and Osborne who started it and the subsequent Tory governments that refused to invest despite pretending austerity is over, have absolutely no personal skin in this game whatsoever. Risk free ideologically led economic modelling. The rest of us scrape around desperately trying to find help for our kids, or not finding any help anywhere.

Also to add from BBC this is a much more realistic and bloody terrible picture of how so many kids needs are not being met:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-67705749

That article is from the specialist reporters who know their area:
By Munaza Rafiq & Nikki Fox
Disability affairs producer & correspondent

Cross posted with you SalmonWellington. Excellent post.

Some people aren't seeing the big picture that an educated society that aims to allow all people to achieve their potential is good for the country as a whole.

@mnhq seriously, how is this thread still up???

Excellent post @SalmonWellington . If only some vile posters on here actually understood how thousands of unpaid carers are actually silently saving the precious economy £££££'s every year by filling the gaps which fail their children daily, monthly and annually, often for years at a time.

As a further note to the impacts of abysmal approaches to SEN funding, a huge chunk of these unpaid carers have given up well-paid careers to jump in where their local authorities and the government have failed in their legal obligations to provide education. Imagine if they could all magically return to the world of work and contribute to their households, the economy GodForbidHaveALife as all other parents have this option to take for granted?

Every child is and should be entitled to an education and God knows with the views being permitted to stand here and against the backdrop of our current government attitudes towards disabilities, our children need education more than most.

I look at my child knowing university won’t be for her but I always hope that she will be able to be an independent and able to contribute to society. Her school have a program that helps some of them to find a job they can do. For some the best we can hope for is that they can be independent enough to look after themselves but as parents we try to never give up.
we fight for basic rights while supporting each other. We raise money to get basic facilities for the schools and yet time after time there are threads here that talk about different groups in a way that devalues them, making it seem like giving basic rights is an expense that should not be made.

Will every person with complex needs become a tax payer, probably not but many will because they accessed education formatted in a way they can understand and grow. It’s already been touched on that some aspects previously captured under other umbrellas such as healthcare are now under education without the proper funding to cover the cost.
People talk about a massive rise in diagnoses without talking about how people were treated in the past, looked away in facilities time after time until it was recognised this was wrong.

Hard fought rights considered unfair while preaching how enlightened we are compared to the past. In the past if people got ill they were given the barest of treatment and it was left to “fate” if they lived or died. Medical advances changed many situations that back then shortened people’s lives, this was and still is a good thing. Yet still there are those who look where we are now and see a “glass half empty “ view. The same applies to education we should strive so that a person can be the best they can be without stating that best must be they are in a high paying career because their basic education cost more.

what is the measure of a person’s worth? How much tax they pay or what they contribute in other ways?

At what point do people say a person has no value? When they have cost the public purse more than they paid in?

I don’t know what my child’s future holds but I read posts on here and I am scared for the future disabled children if we don’t take a moment to reflect and look at how we are treating them and the other vulnerable members of our society.

@ComtesseDeSpair @NalafromtheLionKing @Naptrappedmummy

I tend to agree. It's important to consider whether it's worth investing heavily in people who will probably not go on to contribute much to society.

For example, if you're a grown adult who is genuinely concerned that the UK is spending too much on disabled children, then you're obviously suffering from some kind of moral impairment, as well as significant difficulties with understanding of the economy.

The question then becomes: how much of our precious time - time that we could be channelling toward productive economic activity - should the rest of us spend trying to educate you and bring you up to normal levels of wisdom and empathy, so that you can exist in society without being a drain on everyone else. Maybe we should just put you in some kind of holding pen. A nice little unpopulated island in the north Atlantic perhaps.

👏👏

I am concerned by what some folks are posting here, their general attitude towards disabled people and what they 'cost' society.

It's very reminiscent to what we were taught at school about the idea of "life unworthy of life" (Lebensunwertes Leben).

It scares me deeply. Where are we going as a society.

Sadly its all too.common on here ,they don't want disabled children in mainstream schools because it, an be disruptive to their own children's education ( unless of course its a disabled child who is very sweet and doesn't present with any challenging behaviour and can be a " learning experience "about inclusion for their children )
But they also think specialist provisions are a waste of time and money can be better spent elsewhere.

I have no problem with the cost to society.
I have a problem with companies taking the piss and over charging because they are doing it for "education".

It should be a criminal offence to charge more for the same job.

@FrippEnos The problem is the private companies are popping up because the State isn't willing to bear the burden themselves.

Not only still up bit it's now trending on Twitter!!!

Just for fun, some of the comments from Twitter regarding this thread:

"Prosecco Stormfront"
"Your eugenics is showing"
"Asking for Mumsnet, do the disabled children go in the blue or the black bins?"
"Imagine going through childbirth and then having to go on Mumsnet"
"An absolute fuck you and hope your pillow is hot on both sides forever for your hell preparation journey"
"Twitter proverb: at least we're not Mumsnet"
"The whole internet hates Mumsnet"

The sentiment shown by some here is deeply worrying.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_unworthy_of_life

There are definitely some posts which cross the line but I don’t understand the insistence upon no debate. I’m autistic and have other disabilities but Like it or not the costs of providing SEN care is a very real issue, just as the costs of healthcare, education, benefits etc also are, no matter how vital they all are. I fail to see the point in pretending that councils aren’t struggling to provide them and that costs and the demand for these services are increasing by the day.

As for people saying would the NHS refuse to pay for X or Y? Are people really so naive that they aren’t aware that this already happens on the NHS and that difficult decisions about providing equipment and surgery and potentially lifesaving drugs and therapies are made every day?

The government regularly wastes money on far less important things than SN and SEN care and education so I’m not suggesting to cut it even further but I think it’s reasonable to discuss what can be provided and to ensure that what is made available is as efficient and effective as possible. The transport costs of providing taxis alone is enormous. I think it’s perfectly valid to look at if there’s another way to do it e.g more minibuses instead, for the children who could manage with that and/or providing more smaller SN schools or units attached to mainstream schools. And probably 100 other changes that would hopefully improve value for money while improving things for children. Pretending that the costs aren’t an issue doesn’t get us anywhere except in more debt and with more cuts to much needed services and even more inadequate provision.

I don't think its any use pretending that Mumsnet doesn't have an ableism issue.

it absolutely does!

And yes of course the costs of specialist provision are high but where do we draw the line and say ''Sorry, your child is too disabled. You're on your own?''

There but for the grace of God go I.....

And yes of course the costs of specialist provision are high but where do we draw the line and say ''Sorry, your child is too disabled. You're on your own?''

But there has to be a line, doesn’t there? Regardless of what’s provided it’s always theoretically possible to provide more and do more just as with the NHS but the reality is that a line has to be drawn at some point whether you budget £50,000 per child or £500,000 because funds are limited and more money for X means that there’s less money for Y and Z. And you can consider the grace of God all you like but that’s the cold hard reality of life.

I am someone with Asperger's syndrome, diagnosed at 4, and was in special education all my life and I cannot disagree or agree with the post. But these are a few points I feel like making.

One thing that I have noticed in all this is that the autistic children and autistic adults themselves are never questioned. We are simply cast off as almost gimmicks, weaklings, not useful. The discrimination is very much there. Perhaps if these children or even older autistic teens were questioned with respect, and not teachers, parents, NGOs, politicians among other bodies, progress would be made in autistic people been happier, more productive, and more likely to seek employment and contribute to society.

Going on the topic of finances, my council were incredibly inefficient when it came to transportation, sometimes busses would have about 20 or so students hemmed in, sometimes it'd be a man and his dog, sometimes two children could live on the same street and be in different busses or taxis. Perhaps if better transport links existed, some of the more high functioning students could make their own way? In my final year of secondary, I was sharing a taxi with one other student, we went to school in separate towns, but as we lived in the same council area, had to share, it'd have been easier if the council where the school was situated would be the ones organizing the transport. Lack of communication between my school, the council and me were common. Every month their seemed to be some new taxi or other gimmick getting thrown around. People would come into their posts, want your life story, and disappear as quick as they came. I cannot stress how LITTLE clear communication exists when you have ASD with councils. By the end, I began ignoring my council when it came to questions regarding my educational needs as nothing would ever be followed up.
For a long time now (since the 2010s...hmm) tabloids have tried to snidely snipe at how much SEN education among others things costs. Ironically, the people who have those views would probably never employ autistic people as "they're just braindead aren't they?". I hate to play a victim complex here, but I fully believe I have got as much discrimination due to my condition as physically disabled people have for there's. And I have also seen frequent discrimination of less able autistic people.

I think a big problem is that for a very long time the government have wanted a size fits all approach when it's very clear to almost anyone that no two autistic people are the same. But that's another story and this post is already extremely long.

I end my post in concluding that is a very multi-faceted issue, one where no answer will work for everybody. I just couldn't ably stand by while people blamed genuine people with autism, but also, I do not think throwing copious amounts of cash while avoiding important dialogue will help much either. Deep down, I feel my council and my school did extremely little to support me throughout my school years.

How come other countries manage, e.g. Germany. And no, their taxes aren't higher anymore. I'd pay lower taxes there and before you tell me to go there, I am a British.

Do they manage though? These articles suggest that the picture isn’t entirely rosey there either. All countries have their problems. Obviously some more than others but few I think are immune to increasing costs and budgetary constraints

https://amp.dw.com/en/how-germany-is-failing-disabled-and-special-needs-students/a-47825546

https://www.dw.com/en/integrating-students-with-disabilities-in-german-schools-still-a-battle/a-6240061

Rosy sorry.