My child was removed from his first school nativity

[MrsH101]

My DC (with delayed speech and receiving SENCO support but not diagnosed with any ASD ADHD) was removed from his school nativity today after about 10-minutes.

We were pre-warned that if they 'were overstimulated or disruptive then they might not get through the whole performance' but we had good seats and could see him singing along, doing the actions and staying seated next to the TA. Not being disruptive in any way - on the contrary, it was delightful to watch.

So it was a shock and quite painful to see him walked out with another child after less than 10 minutes and we had to sit through the rest of the performance wondering what had just happened.

The question is, AIBU to speak to the school?

It won't change anything, he doesn't really care that much and in the grand scheme of things, him thriving and progressing at school is more important - and we want to foster a good relationship with the school who have worked closely with us since he started.

But as first experiences as parents go, it absolutely sucked and the whole thing looked completely pre-planned - he certainly seemed to be expecting it and thought he'd done everything asked of him.

So it made me wonder if there is any way we can have a productive conversation with the school to improve things? Or should we leave it and focus on the big picture.

I am sorry op. I would definitely ask and go from there

I am wondering why they didn't tell you in advance what their plan was. I would definitely be asking the question.

I'm surprised people said yabu! I would absolutely just ask, say did something happen? From what you saw he was doing well so you wondered if something had gone wrong.

I'm an eyfs teacher and I'm quite surprised they didn't actually acknowledge it with you. Where did he go when he was taken out? He could well have just asked to go for a wee or something and not wanted to return.

I agree with PP saying they probably wanted him to have a success. Would have been better if they communicated that with you though if that was the case.

But as first experiences as parents go, it absolutely sucked and the whole thing looked completely pre-planned - he certainly seemed to be expecting it and thought he'd done everything asked of him

Maybe it was pre-planned. Perhaps they knew at what point in the play it would become too much for him (from experiences in rehearsal) and wanted him to do well and then leave before he became overstimulated. If he was expecting it maybe that's what has been happening in the rehearsals.
If that's what they've done I think it is a good strategy. He did everything he was asked to do and did it well and then went off to another room before it became too much.

The only thing that was wrong here was that they did not communicate that to you. They said if he becomes overstimulated and disruptive he will be taken out. It would have been better to say that he'd be in for the first 10 minutes because he'd managed to do well up to that point in the rehearsals.

YANBU to have a chat with the teacher about it.

I'm confused as to what the issue is here.

How long was the whole nativity? Surely not longer than about 20 minutes at that age?

Your son's part may well have only been a 10 minute part, and he left at his allocated cue with another student who was only in it for 10 minutes.

The teacher most probably worked out during rehearsal who would and who wouldn't be able to cope with being on stage for the whole time, and so they would have planned for children who they knew wouldn't manage a whole performance to have a shorter part and an exit point at an appropriate moment.

There is never any guarantee in a school play that all students will be on stage throughout the whole performance. It's often not practical to do so.

I say this as a Drama teacher - please respect the teacher's professional judgement and their artistic choices. You are making a huge assumption here that your child was 'removed' when you have no actual knowledge or evidence to suggest that was the case. It was most probably always the plan, and it is totally unreasonable of you to expect to be given a blow-by-blow account of the timings of when each child will be on stage and what they will be doing in advance. The teacher has better things to do.

I really don't see that there was anything wrong in this situation. Your child was on stage, they enjoyed themselves, they had their moment, and they didn't seem distressed or confused at being led off stage, which all points to this being preplanned in their best interests. So what's the problem? I think you are reading more into this situation than it warrants because of your own sensitivities about your child's additional needs.

Honestly, if a parent wanted me to explain why I had given their child a particular role and those specific lines and why they were only on stage for X minutes, I would not be best pleased. My usual response in these scenarios is to ask them their personal professional experience of running school productions, and I find that tends to bring the conversation to a swift close. Please don't be that parent. Especially not at this time of year. The correct thing to do is send an email to the teacher thanking them for arranging such a lovely nativity and saying what a fabulous time your son had.

Its very likely that they’ve been studying him to see how long he can cope for, and took him out before he reached that point.

Speak to them.

They sound like they know what they’re doing .

What patronising nonsense

Please ask. You have a 10+ years of schooling ahead. With additional needs, it is so important to understand and log in writing what is happening for your child. Often schools offer quite limited info (too busy/don’t see it as relevant/ have seen it all before). This evidence will provide background that you will require to get the learning support your child needs. Sounds harsh but along the way you will get a few poor, a few good and even fewer excellent teachers that can fully support your child (including keeping to up to date with key observations). Don’t doubt yourself, ask and ask again. It is horrible as you may feel like “one of those parents” that annoy the school but…your child will suffer if you don’t stay in loop and on top of your child’s situation.

@BrassOlive why do you think I was patronising? I think we ask a lot from our young children to get up on a stage and be expected to perform. Lots of adults wouldn't do it. I think we should celebrate what children can and have achieved rather than focus on the negatives. I'm sorry you felt as though I was being patronising

With my ds id be happier if they removed him before he started to struggle than after. But there's no reason not to ask.

But @EnidSpyton the teacher had already communicated with the OP and given her certain expectations. They said that he might not complete the whole performance and that he'd be taken off if he became upset or disruptive. I think most people would interpret that as meaning that the plan was for the child to be in the whole play and that only if there was a problem would they be removed. That isn't what happened.
And from the OP's description that her child and one other left the stage I'm presuming that everyone else was there for the whole thing, took a bow etc, not that every child was on the stage for different amounts of time. She isn't demanding a blow by blow justification of every move in the play anyway or complaining that her child didn't get the starring role, she is merely asking why what actually happened didn't appear to tally with what she'd been led to expect.
The staff were clearly cognisant of the child's needs and bothered enough to communicate that in advance to the parents, all of which is good of course. The problem is that they then changed the plan and didn't communicate why. There is probably a good reason. The OP just wants to know what that is, she isn't asking for the teacher's head on a platter. It is possible to ask a question without it being criticism. I don't think the OP is being excessively sensitive.

Well done to your son for doing what sounded like a great performance on his first Nativity. As PPs have said, I would just politely ask the reason he came out early, given he appeared to be doing so well. I'd probably approach it along the lines of "It was great to see X doing so well in the nativity earlier today, thank you for working with him on this. We noticed he was taken out a little early and although we were warned he may be taken out if he became distressed, given he managed well we wondered why he didn't stay for the whole performance? Many thanks, parent X and parent y"
If it was to pre empt he may not have tolerated longer based on rehearsals then I think it's fine but I'd just then gently feed back that it's something you'd like to know in future so you can continue to work with the school and jointly manage expectations, etc

I should imagine that your DC may have found the rehearsals overwhelming so having him taking part for 10 minutes is an achievement. Your child will have come away with a positive experience of taking part in their first nativity. The alternative woulld have been for him to begin to become anxious, requiring him to be taken out whilst his anxiety increased. I’m sure that isnt what youd want?

I'd do same.

Mrs Avocet has it spot on.

Sounds like he went out on a high while he was still comfortable and enjoying himself. Surely that is better than him being practically carried off kicking and screaming.

You may be a drama teacher but you don't seem to have much knowledge of primary school nativities - all the ones I have been to have been an hour long with all children on the stage for the entire performance. OPs may have been similar so it would be obvious if her child was removed if all other children continued.

OP should definitely ask for more information.

@MrsAvocet I see what you’re saying, but if I were the teacher, I would feel I had communicated sufficiently already. The OP had been told that if there was any feeling a child wouldn’t manage, that child’s performance would be shortened. That is clearly what happened, as decided by the teacher, based on what they had seen of the child during rehearsals.

The Op says her child was happy and enjoyed himself so I really don’t see why she needs to have a further discussion. She is being over sensitive. The teacher obviously decided they didn’t want to risk the OP’s child becoming overstimulated or stressed out and so designed a part and an exit moment specifically for them so that they could best enjoy the experience. That shows care and concern for the child’s best interests.

The teacher will have put loads of work and thought into the nativity to make it accessible to all the students. Clearly it went well and the OP’s child loved the experience. Therefore, for the only response from the OP to that hard work to be ‘why didn’t you tell me exactly what my child would be doing in advance?’ I think is more than a little ungrateful and frankly insensitive.

I’m just giving the teacher’s perspective here. I put loads of extra time into sorting out the school play every year and most of the time I never get any thanks. Instead, all I get is parents moaning at me about their child not getting the part they wanted or whatever and after a while it does get to you. Sometimes it would be nice for parents to just give a teacher the benefit of the doubt and bear in mind that they are tired and stressed and doing all of this on top of their day to day work and so an email criticising what they’re doing might just not need to be sent. Honestly, if I got an email from the OP right now about this, after all the work I’d put into making a nativity for everyone to enjoy, I’d be handing in my notice. It really would send me over the edge on top of all the other shit we have to deal with on a daily basis that gets in the way of us doing our jobs.

Omg this is a year r nativity not the globe theatre get a grip.

@Theprincessisblanketed EYFS kids on stage for a whole hour? Really? That would surprise me. My year 7s can’t even do that!

This is a sensible answer.

100%, have a chat - say you were a bit puzzled as you were told he would be taken out if it became too much, and he did seem to be coping.

But I agree with all the pp saying that it is better to have a successful appearance and then leave at the point that it had generally become too much in rehearsals, than have him have a very public meltdown at which point it would presumably be quite a challenge to be able to get him to where he felt less anxious ?

Mother of SEN child.

My take on it would be that through rehearsals he may have got upset after ten minutes or there may have been something overstimulating later in the nativity.

Easier on him all round to remove him prior to him getting upset and then being dysregulated for the rest of the day leading into the next.

Please ask them as to their reasoning because this information could help you manage with your son in future scenarios or be fed into adaptations for him.

If your child does end up being a SEN child you will need to get used to being “that parent” and constantly questioning things. My son has SEN and you just have to, you gave up advocate for them, especially when they can voice things themselves. My son used to struggle in assemblies but he was never removed as he struggled, but not enough to need to leave. If they took him out and he appeared fine, I would not be happy and would definitely want answers.