To be worried DH is inadvertently teaching DC to be a bit naughty

[kookykalki]

DH as a husband and adult is generally a very kind person. But as a kid it sounds like he would get into fights at school ( primary) and that FIL would encourage it eg. "Never walk away from a fight", "hit back if you get hit" (I find this attitude really stressful as my parents encouraged the literal opposite).

We have an 8 month old DD and I've noticed some of their playing are things that bother me a little. Eg. She wanted a teddy that was in his hand and was reaching for it but he'd move it away everytime she tried to make a grab for it. I thought in my head why not just give it to her instead of being annoying? She wasn't laughing or smiling at this "game" but equally I guess she wasn't crying or upset. I wonder if it will teach her to be a bit of a bully?

Similarly I've noticed he will make her teddies wrestle each other or punch each other.

I feel like compared to the other babies at stay and play she is a bit aggressive. She wants to grab or scratch or bite the other babies(although I appreciate she wants to hold everything and put it in her mouth right now) whereas the other babies her age seem so much more docile.

AIBU to think DH is partly responsible for this?

I do not want to micromanage his parenting.

Not sure why you are feeling the need to be so rude but OK.

It's not mutually exclusive that he has good intentions (as all parents do for their children) but is also immature, has not had the best experience from his own parents, and not in reality doing the best thing for his child's development.

My dad used to play this way with my DD when she was a baby. Now 18, my DD is a lovely, kind, caring young adult, studying health and social care, so she can go to uni and train as a mental health nurse. I don't think that this kind of play turned her into a bully 😂

There’s a huge problem with male violence in society so I think it would be better to question how we raise boys. We could ask ourselves whether we would accept a boy’s rough behaviour from a girl. And then if not act accordingly to stop it.

They can get excitement and risk and physical play from climbing trees, riding bikes, swimming, sports etc. We should be teaching all children to be nonviolent in their interactions with others. We should be modelling gentle play, cooperation and nonviolebt resolution of disagreements from the very beginning. Children are little sponges and they will try to copy everything.

Have you got boys? If you read the book "Raising boys" you can see that boys get surges of testosterone and need to use up the physicality it brings.
Wrestling doesn't need to be aggressive (I did say that). I've got two teen boys and they do play fight and wrestle and they are lovely kind boys not thugs.
I don't think the OP DH was being violent and horrible but I just get annoyed that we want girls to be "gentle" and not allow them to express physically too

I put you are unreasonable. For the simple reason she’s 8 months old. She is not aggressive. Not even remotely. She isn’t capable. I find your words about your baby much worse than I find your husbands play.

I have girls, but they also have impulses to violence and have to be taught not to hit etc. I’m happy with physical games and risky play - running, chasing, tickling, throwing up in the air , climbing trees, jumping, but hurting, punching, kicking each other, that will be stopped. I don’t think there’s any justification for doing differently with boys. They can let out surges of adrenalin in the ways I have mentioned.

I would do the same if I had boys. I grew up with a brother and I think we were similarly inclined to violence tbh and were both raised to know that was not an acceptable way of behaving regardless of sex. Our mum was very careful about the TV we watched etc and avoided exposing us to depictions of violence. I think OPs DH’s attitude to violence and modelling of it is very concerning.

Oh no! He... holds things slightly out of her reach. And does little play fights with teddies. Exactly what my sibling and I grew up with, and neither of us were bullies. I wasn't the most playful child initially, so I'm actually very grateful that he brought me out of my shell and helped me to develop a better sense of humour. It's served me well in life.

See this article on roughhousing:
https://parents.highlights.com/6-reasons-roughhousing-good-children

Roughhousing and gentle teasing are important for kids. It's healthy for children to learn to distinguish between a bit of light, well-meaning teasing and genuine aggression. A child who hasn't been exposed to rough and tumble play is more likely to end up hurting other kids because a) they perceive the play as an actual attack and b) lack of exposure means they haven't learnt to recognise their own physical strength and limitations, meaning that they respond disproportionately. Alternatively, they'll retreat or burst into tears over these standard childhood interactions, meaning they might suffer socially.

Her dad is teaching her persistence, resilience, good coordination and how to recognise body language. He's probably started a little early, as she's a bit young to get it right now, but once she's a toddler she'll likely think he's hilarious.

Lots of us grew up watching Tom & Jerry, Looney Tunes and other slapstick cartoons, in which characters would literally smash each others' teeth in, crush each other with anvils and pianos, electrocute each other and blow each other up with dynamite. Many kids and adults have laughed at all this horrific violence and yet almost none of us have turned into murderous sociopaths. Those that have gone on to be violent offenders or bullies are unlikely to cite Bugs Bunny as the driving force behind their behaviour. Disney and Pixar aren't as zany but still utilise slapstick comedy - will your DD be allowed to watch these (often U-rated) movies? Presumably so.

I really don't see that there's any correlation between her dad playing with the way lots of people play with their kids and her scratching or biting now and then as a baby. The best thing you can do is to pull her up on those behaviours if they persist into toddlerhood and generally teach her to be respectful of other peoples' boundaries, free will, personal space and property. Obviously, no-one wants their child to become a bully. But it's also important not to conflate courage, resilience or adventurousness with "violence" or "bullying". I'd much rather my child kept it together and held their own when someone was winding them up, rather than shrink back or start bawling at the slightest provocation.

Tom and Jerry etc aren’t shown any more for a good reason. Early exposure to TV violence has been shown to contribute to aggression as adults. There aren’t many murderers but there certainly are a lot of aggressive and violent men who use force to get their way or express their anger.

You can develop courage, resilience, strength, physicality etc through risky play, without ever needing to tolerate hurting others. My brother and I did swimming, horse riding, snowboarding, skateboarding, climbing, team sports etc .

https://www.apa.org/pi/prevent-violence/resources/tv-violence

I think there is an urge of most mothers to nurture and for dads to push the boundaries. Both useful in different ways. You are over thinking it.

I had another idea OP.

I think your DH is just repeating patterns of behaviour and play that people used with him when he was a child. And Things he saw in Tom and Jerry and those old violent kids shows, so that’s what he first thinks of to do when he’s trying to play with her. It’s all about conflict and violence.

i was thinking how he could be exposed to new ideas about how to play with her and I was thinking of the cartoon Bluey. It’s all about play and it’s normally the dad playing the games with the kid. If you could engineer for him to watch a bit if that with your DD then he might have some new ideas to reach for.

I know she's only 8 months old but I do think that out of reach out of reach yeah you got it woo is fine but the wrestling is not so great unless it's a wrestle hit, hey I don't like that please stop. okay I'm sorry. My 2yo would bite and it was through play that we showed her how to act. That's still valid even at 8mo.

YANBU. I know a dad who parented like this, taught his kids that rules are for suckers, and now his kids are a total uncontrollable nightmare.

Talk to him about it. Say that he needs to role model kindness and that she is far too young for that kind of play.

The lessons learned the youngest go the deepest.

I read that book and binned it, the only place it belongs is in the bin. Never read such a load of patronising sexist nonsense!!

You're not being unreasonable. Although at 8 months old she is not learning to be a bully by DH's style of play, babies do learn through mirroring the behaviour that they see - so your DH making her teddies hit each other won't help. She is too young to understand his story behind the actions. They don't understand how to be gentle etc, they're just learning what their arms and legs do, so I wouldn't read too much into how she is at stay and play at the moment but she does need someone to model being gentle etc.

However, as she gets older and she starts to understand more (but not fully!) she will begin to wonder why Daddy is not giving her a toy she wants or why he is making her toys hurt each other. She won't understand the game but she will be more understanding of the actions.

Your DH sounds like he isn't very good at 'reading the room' and understanding when to stop, which will become a problem as she becomes older - not necessarily at teaching her to be a bully, but it could affect his relationship with her and how she views others. My DH sometimes struggles with this. For example, he will make a joke with our 4 yr old DD something like pretending to eat her sweets or something like that, and she will get upset because she doesn't understand that he's joking and he comes across as being mean.

Maybe talk to him about it. You could say, oh I've been reading this article about development and play and at DDs age, she learns by........ Or you could just be more direct and tell him that she doesn't understand his game behind the actions and can only copy what she sees i.e. hitting etc.

I agree with this, my partners a teddy bear, I don't think he's ever been in a fight in his life and the only way he plays with our kids is rough and tumble, wrestling etc. They're all very well socialised and not aggressive (to other children, they are with each other haha)

I don’t think you are being unreasonable. I think it sounds like your partner doesn’t maybe realise that babies learn from what is modelled and in his mind it is just a wee carry on but to children that is their first experiences that do form their brains to an extent because we are hyper aware that they are picking everything up. I think it’s important for parents to be on the same page and it starts early with this small stuff and later on in life with the big stuff and so it should be fair for you to say hey I think we should try and model to her caring for her teddies and taking turns etc because that’s how children learn without any issue.