To be worried DH is inadvertently teaching DC to be a bit naughty

[kookykalki]

DH as a husband and adult is generally a very kind person. But as a kid it sounds like he would get into fights at school ( primary) and that FIL would encourage it eg. "Never walk away from a fight", "hit back if you get hit" (I find this attitude really stressful as my parents encouraged the literal opposite).

We have an 8 month old DD and I've noticed some of their playing are things that bother me a little. Eg. She wanted a teddy that was in his hand and was reaching for it but he'd move it away everytime she tried to make a grab for it. I thought in my head why not just give it to her instead of being annoying? She wasn't laughing or smiling at this "game" but equally I guess she wasn't crying or upset. I wonder if it will teach her to be a bit of a bully?

Similarly I've noticed he will make her teddies wrestle each other or punch each other.

I feel like compared to the other babies at stay and play she is a bit aggressive. She wants to grab or scratch or bite the other babies(although I appreciate she wants to hold everything and put it in her mouth right now) whereas the other babies her age seem so much more docile.

AIBU to think DH is partly responsible for this?

I do not want to micromanage his parenting.

Babies do swipe and grab and scratch - they are babies curious about the world around them and unaware that they can cause pain/harm to people when they grab. Teaching them to be gentle through redirection usually works. I don’t think a bit of light teasing and silly fighting teddies is going to turn her into a bully - but this seems deeper so a chat about parenting boundaries with DH (no smacking, we walk away from violence etc) probably needed.

And then people complain that girls are being stereotyped as too nice etc!

Ask yourself OP if you had a boy would you object to the wrestling game. If the answer is no then YABU. Why can't girls wrestle and good on on DH treating his girl as he would a boy. He probably doesn't know any other games!

If you would object to the wrestling Teddy game no matter what sex the baby was ... then I fear you may be in for a shock! I have two boys and life was full of fighting, wrestling, bashing. Doesn't need to be aggressive or hurtful but it may be a lot more boisterous than you expect.

I'm not a fan of teasing as usually there's only one person laughing. If she looks bothered by it I'd call him out in the moment. It's likely he wouldn't realise as it's the norm to him.

I'd mention it as a chat that you don't like the fighting stuff and you are concerned it encourages the wrong behaviours.

You show read the research into the importance of men and 'rough housing play' - it's so important.

I'm also a fan of the 'if you get hit then hit them back harder' approach - this will stop your child from being bullied and taken advantage of.

Perhaps the teasing at this young an age is a bit much - but it sounds like he's paying attention to the kids!!

Yeah, I didn't say the one instance of playing with a teddy was toxic in itself but it suggests a pattern where he feels men playing with kids is only ok if it's kind of teasing. That overall might be something to look at.

Have a look on YouTube at the Bobo dolls experiments undertaken with young children regarding modelling behaviour. I'd be pissed off with your husband, too.

I think you can have both styles of parenting running together. I find too often (including in my own daughters' case - now 21 and 23) we teach girls that to be "good" you have to be passive. Don't fight back, be kind, let others go first etc. Sometimes I wish my daughters had had more rough and tumble, more teasing to build a little more resilience.

The assumption that mum is always right with regard to child rearing can shut men out from caring for their kids too.

Some of what he's doing (e.g. the moving the toy away from her) teach perseverance and resilience (providing she normally gets the toy eventually and it doesn't normally end in tears). DD will probably learn a lot more by having people play with her with different styles than if you both play with her in the same style.

We used to play a game where we'd bash them when my dc were really little - it involved pretending to bash them, or holding their hands and getting them to bash us, each other or themselves and ask, "Why are you bashing [insert name of whoever they're doing it to]?" and they'd laugh their heads off. They're the least aggressive kids you could imagine but they always enjoyed that game. We still sometimes do it now, end l even though they're 11&12!

Your husband is behaving exactly as most older siblings do and not all younger siblings end up as aggressive bullies. Don't worry about this at all. There is room for two parenting styles and your daughter won't come out any the worse for it.

She must be very advanced to model any sort of aggressive behaviour at 8 months! Mine can just about sit upright.

I think I understand OP. The moving the teddy game - it's only a game if she's enjoying it. I think it's fine to move teddy a couple of times but she does then have to be allowed to get it and praised for reaching out for him. It's just mean to persistently allow her to try and not be rewarded. I think the message should be 'you don't get something the first time but keep trying and you will' and because she is so little with a very short attention span, the number of times to try needs to be tailored to her ie not many!
Re wrestling teddies etc- when she's a toddler you'll repeating over and over "gentle hands, we don't hit, it hurts when you hit/grab' and I agree with you that from the very start we should model the behaviour we want.
Can you invent a friend with an older toddler who's having problems with them hitting and violent play and say something like mum told you the HV recommended never show even playful violence to a child, always show kind hands etc? I have used this tactic a couple of times on DH and it helps to avoid the blame game whilst getting your point across!

Well is he open to learning how to parent his child in a better way?

If he gets defensive when you talk to him about this stuff, that's a problem, he's not willing to accept feedback and just sees it as criticism.

We all have room for improvement. You are not saying he doesn't care but maybe he doesn't really understand 8 month old babies and what they need.

If he's open to learning then you can look at parenting techniques/ books/ courses together.

I don't think he is doing it with the intention of teaching her this, though.

I think he's doing it because he thinks it's funny.

It's about the intention - is he really putting his daughter's needs first?

I do not think any of his games are done in a malicious way. But I do think he lacks awareness of how babies learn. Like the play wrestling is done.very playfully like "Hey rabbit, where did you get that scarf from, it's mine. I'm a tiger I'm going to pounce and get it back grr grr grr"... but ultimately it is showing her how to hit.

I can't see anything wrong with this. And I also agree with hit back approach in the OP. As long as you teach them not to start fights.

I wouldn’t be happy with this either. Would he read a book about child development or behaviour, or go with you on a parenting course or something like that?

I think it's a huge assumption that he's doing it for his own amusement. He told his wife they were playing chase. People see games differently and value different things when playing with their kids. Just because he's not trying to get her to laugh the way OP would doesn't mean he isn't doing what he thinks is best for his child.

He may or may not be hoping she learns anything in particular from it. He may just think it's a good game to play.

But I don't think intention is the important thing here. Almost all parents put their own needs ahead of their children's from time to time. It doesn't make them terrible parents if their children aren't harmed when they do so, providing they also meet their DCs needs and give them plenty of love.

Dh was smacked as a child, his parents were strict, and he was also bullied. I personally think theres a connection - if your parents teach you that it's ok to hit people and use, frankly, fear to control you, you're more likely to either bully or be bullied in the future. Bullying after all is not done because the child is confident and happy.

I agree with this. My father was very aggressive and hit my brother and me frequently, often without a reason we could fathom, other than that he lost his temper. We were both bullied at school. In my case, dealing defensively with that level of aggression lowered my self-esteem, meaning I felt I deserved to be bullied. This also impacted on other relationships and I've had MH problems throughout my adult life. There are other factors in this, but my dad's behaviour was a big factor. I'm in touch with him as an adult for my mother's sake, not because I feel close to him.

And all those people saying she's only little are ignoring just how much we learn as babies, whilst our brains are still developing. I would want to find a way to tackle this OP - it's not good. Yes, girls in particular should be able to be assertive but I wouldn't like him treating either a boy or girl in this way.

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Rough and tumble isn’t important for kids. Physical activity is. They don’t need to learn to wrestle. We can teach them to have kind hands.

This sort of teasing of young children makes me totally cringe. It is simply a power trip and is the worst sort of parenting. Tell him to stop.

One problem is that it often gets them over-excited and ends in tears as they do not quite know what is going on or what is expected of them.

Well this is someone who got into a lot of fights at school, sounds to have had a certain type of parenting from his dad ('hit back if you get hit' etc), who is re-enacting fighting scenes with teddy bears in front of his 8 month old daughter.

It's not a huge assumption to think he might not have the best understanding of positive parenting and how babies develop socially and emotionally.

Of course intention is important. If you parent with the intention that your children's needs and development are paramount, you will be open to feedback and growth which is good all around.

I'm sure he's doing what he thinks is best for his child, but if he truly has an intention of putting her needs first, he can take on board some constructive feedback and learn to parent better.

So first you thought his intention was to amuse himself and because of that it was bad.

Now you are sure his intentions are to do the best for her. But you are confident that what he is doing is bad for her, though you have no evidence of that.

Like OP you seem to find it difficult comprehend that there is more than one way to parent well.

@kookykalki your instincts are sound (and more enlightened than most: the yabu's - They could learn something from you, not the other way around.)
Please don't doubt yourself.

You're husband declares he doesn't want her to be 'a sheep', yet he was drawn to you and you're a product of your more gently guided upbringing (not a sheep).

OP 8 months is so young, I find it hard to imagine what being aggressive looks like at that age. I wouldn't worry too much for now.

But the 'I don't want her to be a sheep' comment would worry me. What does 'being a sheep' mean? Is cooperating with others 'being a sheep'? Does he want to train her into being defiant and solitary? I think this needs talking about.

More broadly speaking, do make sure you talk enough about parenting aims and styles with you DH. My DH has been very involved with our daughters and tried to transmit his (arguably outsized) sense of entitlement to them. I kept telling him that he can't just model it for them and expect them to be the same; they're their own people and besides, the world doesn't work the same way for girls/women as it has for him.

But I left it at questioning his aims, rather than suggesting alternatives or sitting down and having a proper discussion on what we want to achieve and how. In hindsight I think that was a mistake. DH and I ended up sending mixed signals, and now as teenagers our daughters are having a harder time calibrating their sense of confidence, if that makes sense, than was necessary.

Many men are still socialized to just assume they're right, especially if it's a woman disagreeing with them. They're not necessarily taught the kind of circumspection and effort to see things from a very different person's point of view required for parenting. With the best of intentions, parents can get things wrong. Try to get some expert info - there have to be books on child psychology that may help alert your DH to the fact that there is a lot of room for miscommunication - and make sure you develop a way to talk calmly about this stuff. And trust your guts.