To put the decorations up alone next year

[Whatafustercluck]

I have very fond memories of putting up the Christmas decorations when I was little. The smell of tinsel, listening to Christmas songs, Dad having to try every bulb until he found the one that needed replacing. Me and my siblings all getting into the Christmas spirit in a similar way, having fun.

We've tried to create the same for our kids but it has backfired most years, but in particular this year. Six years age difference between ours - ds just turned 13, dd just turned 7. They hate each other and argue over everything - and I mean everything. 13yo wanted the same stocking that dd likes to have. I asked him to back off because he no longer believes, but she does. Eye roll, that's when things started to decline.

We've got loads of handmade decorations which they've both made over the years. She's a bit sensitive because he has more than her, so we've explained that's because he's been around 6 years longer and made a new one every year. He began winding her up on purpose "oh look, that one's mine too, I'll put that on the tree" while waving it in her face all goady. She starts to get irritated.

Then she takes her big sister's bauble out of the box (she's 23 but they all still have named baubles that we put on the tree). I'd removed the string to put new string on it. Ds pipes up "oh look, you've broken it!" to his little sister. At which point she goes nuts because she's had enough and she hadn't broken it. And then dh finally snaps and loses his patience. I was so fed up with the whole situation, I took myself off for a walk.

Come back an hour later, peace restored. The next argument is over which Christmas film we watch together first (our tradition is that we put up the decorations and then sit down as a family to watch a Christmas film. I ended up suggesting we draw lots to make it fair, and that includes mine and dh's choices (all age appropriate). We draw out dh's choice Miracle on 34th Street. Both kids muck about and argue the whole way through until ds decides to take himself off upstairs because he no longer wants to watch it.

It shouldn't be this hard, should it? I see all these lovely photos and messages of everyone else's nice, normal families getting on so well with one another, giving and taking in equal measure. And then there's our lot, arguing over every tiny detail, fighting for attention from me and dh. They both have adhd so maybe this is normal for ND siblings but it makes me so sad.

I've got quite cross with ds, told him he's been very selfish today and ruined what should have been a nice day. If he's too old for all the traditions then that's fine, I'll do it myself with dh next year. But then dd misses out or we do it with her and ds will feel pushed aside. I can't win.

At 13 I can totally see he wouldn't be interested in it... I have 3 boys and I remember getting upset about their lack of interest around this age! I just do it myself now and they come along at the end and make nice noises about the decs (mainly to keep me happy) it's how it goes I think...

Maybe it's time to change up the traditions to keep them inline with their ages and interests etc.

Could you not have got DS the same stocking? It's not about who believes the most, surely?!

As for the rest, maybe they aren't interested in putting up decorations, just because you have fond memories of it doesn’t mean they will take after you.

The thing is, dd still really enjoys it and gets excited about it. I can cope with him getting older, but he's still part of the family and he can't just go around deliberately trying to ruin things for his sister by goading her and competing for absolutely everything. He's 13, not 3!

All sounds very normal!

Just do it without him if he’s gonna act like a baby

We decorated yesterday. DD aged 11 all over it, DS age 13 couldn't care less. We left him to his own devices.

You might have been better off having two separate sessions decorating with each child while your DH did something with the other. We often split ours up with different activities.

While I get that you're frustrated that your eldest couldn't be more mature and indulge his little sister rather than wind her up but remember siblings often aren't like that. Adult siblings can still enjoy winding each other up!

Enjoy decorating with dd and having that special time together then do something with ds that he would like... there will be other things you can all enjoy together I'm sure.

I totally get wanting that special time together as a family etc but if it just ends in arguing I wouldn't try and force it!

My kids all love Christmas and putting the decorations up, they always have. It's not age.

Perhaps doing it all on one day might be too intense? Perhaps you can split elements up so some with youngest, some with older one and some with everyone?

From your post it seems DH absolves himself of any role including mediator.

I don't think the age gap is the issue but I think you might take some time to observe how your family interact, the tone of voice, how minor conflict is resolved and how much fun you have as a family.

Whilst all families squabble, goading, patronising, or ridiculing isn't healthy. Your children are at different developmental stages but if they are unable to demonstrate basic kindness it doesn't bode well for their lifelong relationships.

We have two stockings which come out every year - same size, one is Santa and one is Rudolph. They argue over it every year.

No, dh definitely doesn't absolve himself. If anything, he lets them get away with less and steps in a lot. It's just that yesterday I was focused on the kids, because they were the cause of how I was feeling. Nothing we say, nothing we do, no amount of parenting strategies can stop them. It's the same on days out, holidays, every time we try to do something as a family. It's exhausting. They're both impulsive, and both want the last word - always. Other than that, they're just very different personalities (in many ways, ds is the 'easier' of the two, and not just because he's older).

This was out of character for ds (I mean he winds her up, and she does the same, but isn't normally goady/ mean like that). He's normally kind and generous when ot matters most. In the evening he came downstairs and apologised, lots of tears and hugs. We had a good chat and it seems like he feels the world is against him at the moment (normal teen stuff) and he said sorry for taking it out on us.

I don't really think it's age either - there's a 7 and 10 year age gap between me and my sisters. But I do wonder if it's an adhd siblings thing and I worry about their long term relationship with one another. Maybe you're right and it's just a bit overwhelming for them both.

@Whatafustercluck I have 5 children, and most of them have some sort of ND, mostly autism and ADHD. Though we all managed to decorate the tree together without too much conflict, my 10yr old struggles when things don't go exactly his way, which leads to him sulking. My 14yr old still loves to join in the decorating though, so I'm not sure it's an age thing, but she is a daughter, so it could be a boy/girl thing? We also watch a Christmas film most days, and they haven't yet fought about that. I think we seem to be getting away with it because they all love Christmas so much, as long as they're involved in some way, they're happy.

However, on a daily basis the arguments, fighting and spitefulness that goes on is sometimes exhausting and I have the same concerns you do about whether or not this bodes well for any future relationship between them. Neither me or my husband have a relationship with any of our siblings, and I didn't want that for our children. I suppose only guidance and time will tell.

I think traditions have to move with ages.

Maybe next year switch to just DD helping to decorate the tree, and then not film but a walk to see lights or something.

Your son did behave badly, but he's apologised and you've had tears and hugs, so I think we can chalk this one up to raging hormones and teen angst.

Thirteen is such a weird age. He's at an age where he's probably a bit less excited about this sort of thing than he once was, and at the same time he probably feels like he ought to be excited. He's still a kid, but because his little sister is only seven, he probably feels like the awkward, non-cute, non-Santa-believing fly in the ointment while his sister is all cutesy and excited, and that probably made him feel grumpy and shit and he took it out on his sister. I suspect the 'Let her have the stocking she wants because she believes in Santa and you don't' conversation probably didn't help. Deep down (even if he can't really articulate this) he probably slightly misses being his little sister's age when things had an added magic, and he's hypersensitive about her (due to being 7) being the centre of the festive attention (I realise you do actually give him lots of attention and that you clearly aren't playing favourites - it's literally just that she's still little and he isn't! But he might still be getting his head round that.)

Siblings constantly bickering on days out etc is pretty normal, sadly!

FWIW my brother and I had the same age gap as your son and myself, and I remember loathing him a lot of the time. But by the time I got to about 11 or 12 and he was late teens, we got on really well and we still do.

Are they getting exercise?
That is important for those with adhd.
Get them to run round the block 3times first

"I see all these lovely photos and messages of everyone else's nice, normal families getting on so well with one another, giving and taking in equal measure."

YABU to believe that the photos people share of their family are true representations of their reality. Stop comparing your reality to other people's social media falseness!

All siblings bicker, some more than others, nothing you can do about it. A 13 year old boy and 7 year old girl have no common ground, of course they will clash.

You will have bickered with your siblings, but you only remember the happy part of the experience because that was what meant more to you.

If you are trying to create lasting happy memories then you need to manage your own expectations and plan for the specific needs and desires of the children you have rather than the children you grew up with.

Perhaps next year, allocate a "special day", you or your husband put up some decorations with your daughter then take her out somewhere fun, perhaps with one of her friends to share it with. At the same time you or your husband take your son out somewhere fun too and then afterwards put up some decorations with him.
At home, put a child's Christmas film on and enjoy it with your daughter while your son takes himself off upstairs if he wants, when she has gone to bed let your son choose a film and enjoy watching it with him. Between the two films, everyone sits around the table and eats together. That way, there is a little all-family time to enjoy, but it's limited so the potential for arguments is reduced, and everyone has had some fun that day.

I see all these lovely photos and messages of everyone else's nice, normal families getting on so well with one another, giving and taking in equal measure.

This is mostly bullshit. To be honest OP, are you going to put what you've said here on Facebook etc.? Probably not. People show you the nice highlights of their lives, not the frustrating reality.

I agree with HoHoHoliday, maybe you should adjust your expectations and forget what you are 'supposed' to do. Just be more adaptable to your kids different ages and needs.

With this -

"We have two stockings which come out every year - same size, one is Santa and one is Rudolph. They argue over it every year."

you're just setting up an argument every year. Next year, declare these two stockings redundant, get them each a new identical stocking with their name on - no arguments over that.

Did they actually want to put up decorations and watch a Christmas film? I never would have wanted to do that as a teen. You sound like you are trying to recreate some nostalgia but the reality is different. Just let everyone do what they want.

This. Can't believe anyone is stupid enough to think a pic on social media is representative of their lives. Of course they post the nice pic but you have no idea what's going on behind the camera. best thing I ever did, coming off social media.

Just do it without DS next year. And get them completely different stockings.
Not point sticking doggedly to "family traditions" if the family aren't enjoying them and it's causing you stress. What you're describing isn't really traditions anyway, it's just the way you like to do things.

I also have a 6 year age gap between my DDs and this year was particularly bad. At one point DD5 was given the (fake) job of straightening out some tassels and DD11 started shouting at her for doing it wrong. Repeat with everything. It was draining and I didn't even manage to get any pictures this year.

Saw some pics on SM of a friend's girls putting the angel on their tree together and felt so sad. Your post has reminded me that it often isn't like this for the majority of people, and I think its more likely to be stressful with tensions running high than the SM family bliss you often see.

Feels a bit mean to say he can’t have a stocking he likes because he knows about Santa. He’s still a child at Christmas time.

Can you replace the stocking they both don’t like with an identical one?

Next year matching stockings but with their names on so each child knows which one is theirs. This removes the potential fight. Be your future friend, when packing away the decorations this year separate the children's hand made ornaments into two separate boxes that way they put up the ones they have made and make a special effort with your youngest to make new ones. When we remove the decorations off the tree they all go onto the floor into different colours and we have a separate box for memory baubles ie ones we have bought from holidays etc or gifted.

Also did you set out expectations before you started decorating the tree? Mine have always known that it is unacceptable to deliberately upset someone and we have never tolerated it just because they are siblings. They have to treat each other like they would their friends, respectfully. It encourages a nasty streak of behaviour if there is no punishment for riling up a sibling and I don't just mean telling them off. This mostly applies to the 13 year old.

Talk to your eldest and explain that it is once a year, you want to be able to look back on it as a fun and positive time, talk about your own childhood memories, maybe look at photos.

However, I suppose my children have experienced loss, we didn't know that Christmas of a particular year was the last we would have with my lovely MIL, she had leukemia and died before we could celebrate another Christmas with her. Ds2's best mate's Mum died aged 39 from sepsis, literally fine to dead within 48 hours so they understand that Christmases are special and you never know when it might be the last one you celebrate as a healthy person. My Mum was undergoing chemotherapy one Christmas. She is also now dead and both her and MIL are sorely missed.

I don't know how much might be the adhd only you know how they behave the rest of the year toward one another. I had a boyfriend in my mid teens that had an 8 year age gap and treated his younger brother appallingly, mocking him etc I told him it was deeply unattractive to see that side of him and he stopped doing it. His Mum was very grateful for my influence.

She always has the Rudolph stocking, ds knows this and stated he wanted it instead, knowing full well that she gets fixated on sameness/ routine - buying totally new stockings wouldn't work either, for this reason. If things deviate from her usual routine it causes stress.

This may or may not be helpful but as I read your post you could have been describing my experiences of Christmas decorating as a child. Bickering with my siblings around whose names/handmade baubles got the best tree positions etc. and do you know what, I have the BEST memories of those times, we bickered and probably caused our parents to feel like you (not consciously of course) but it was a great, enjoyable family activity regardless and makes me smile when I see my kids having similar tiffs over decorations etc.