Page 8 | Banging on the door of the Accessible Toilet

HunterHearstHelmsley · 2023-12-10T09:30:24+00:00

Why do people do this?! I've just used the accessible toilet (I need to use the accessible toilet). I'd barely sat down and someone started banging on the door. I wasn't in there an unreasonable amount of time - probably about 30 seconds when the door banging started and 3 minutes overall. I was in there because I needed to be, banging on the door isn't going to make me quicker. If someone was taking the piss, it'd probably make them stay longer! It's not the first time it's happened but it's so frustrating. It happened a few weeks ago also, that time was a woman wanting to use the baby change... the baby change wasn't even in the accessible loo! It's really annoyed me this morning, it's not something I've noticed when using non-accesible toilets so I think it's just an accessible loo thing. But whyyyy?! I can't go faster 😩

Lovelysausagedogscrumpy · 10/12/2023 14:05

Bigstones · 10/12/2023 13:09

People who need the accessible toilet don’t need to wait in the queue for the non accessible toilets- why would they? They can’t use them.

They ignore that queue and go straight to the accessible toilet- if someone is in it or there is a queue of disabled people waiting for it then they wait- this can be very difficult and lead to accidents etc but it’s unavoidable- no one disabled person has priority over another.

If able bodied people who could use a normal toilet but can’t be bothered to wait choose to use a facility that’s there solely for the use of disabled people who don’t have a choice-

yes, they might be doing other able bodied people in the queue a favour by making their queue move more quickly, but they are stopping disabled people with no other option from using a facility that was put there for them. They are not making it “quicker for all involved”- they are making it slower for the people who actually HAVE to use that facility”.

If I’m in the accessible toilet in my wheelchair and a disabled person arrives needing the loo, can’t get in because I’m in there and they have an accident on the floor- I’m sorry about that and apologise because it isn’t nice for them. However it doesn’t make me a dickhead, because I’m using the only toilet I can. The same can not be said of people who cause that situation purely because they can’t be arsed to wait.

Accessible toilets are there so that disabled people can actually go for a fucking piss- NOT so that able bodied people can move through a queue more quickly.

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👏👏 👏. Well said.

LadyKenya · 10/12/2023 14:08

Rosscameasdoody · 10/12/2023 13:54

Apologies if I’m wrong, but I think you’re referring to me. If so, show me where I’ve said any of this., or been judgmental. I’ve never questioned genuinely disabled people using the facilities, or suggested that those with hidden disabilities are any less entitled. But different disabilities bring different needs, and upthread I suggested that those disabled people who could easily use standard facilities would be helping to free up accessible toilets for those with different needs. Before I was wheelchair bound I tried to do this myself, and a number of other disabled posters have indicated that they do the same wherever possible. I suggested that wheelchair users have no choice but to use accessible toilets, whereas some people who are ambulant may have more choice. And that’s all. Only on MN would the suggestion that disabled people look out for each other and be more mindful of different needs be treated as judgmental and ‘disability top trumps’. I’m out. This thread is toxic.

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There have been a few posts where the look of the person using the toilet has been mentioned, so I was addressing nobody in particular. I am saying that people should not be judging people using these facilities on how they look, that is all.

Hereforthebunfights · 10/12/2023 14:08

So where do disabled people change their babies?

pam290358 · 10/12/2023 14:14

Lolovans · 10/12/2023 13:18

Part M of the Building Regulations does state that disabled toilets should not be used as baby changing facilities.

It also says the ambulant disabled cubicle in a toilet facility is not intended purely for disabled people and is for anyone who needs extra space and cites people with children and those with luggage who need the space as examples.

One project I am working on has discussed the re designation of the accessible toilets as suitable for gender diverse people who don't feel comfortable in single sex facilities as we have an existing building that isn't easily modified. Discussions are ongoing...

But just to clarify, if you read the uploaded article it actually says that the use of these facilities by non disabled people only applies to single sex washrooms with an enlarged cubicle. It does not apply to unisex enlarged facilities which are provided to accommodate wheelchair users and those who care for someone disabled while using the facilities.

Rosscameasdoody · 10/12/2023 14:16

LadyKenya · 10/12/2023 14:08

There have been a few posts where the look of the person using the toilet has been mentioned, so I was addressing nobody in particular. I am saying that people should not be judging people using these facilities on how they look, that is all.

Edited

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Then I apologise. I’ve come in for a fair bit of criticism and wasn’t sure if you were referring to my posts. Thank you for clarifying.

Bellyblueboy · 10/12/2023 14:16

Smartiepants79 · 10/12/2023 09:34

Well the baby change thing is silly and rude but presumably some people need to use the accessible bathroom because they have bowel issues and may need to go as fast as possible??
I admit to sometimes rattling the handle of toilets as some people just seem to be unaware that other people might be waiting.

You rattle the door because you think people should pew quicker for you?

what is wrong with you? How bloody rude.

Sirzy · 10/12/2023 14:17

Hereforthebunfights · 10/12/2023 14:08

So where do disabled people change their babies?

Changing tables should be in disabled cubicles - ideally changing places ones which can be used by disabled adults too.

they should also be in either a separate stand alone baby changing area or if that’s not possible tables in male and female toilets.

to have the only baby change in a facility in the disabled toilet is very poor planning. Especially if that is at a family friendly location as it can make it very hard for disabled people to access the toilet

Neriah · 10/12/2023 14:27

Sirzy · 10/12/2023 14:17

Changing tables should be in disabled cubicles - ideally changing places ones which can be used by disabled adults too.

they should also be in either a separate stand alone baby changing area or if that’s not possible tables in male and female toilets.

to have the only baby change in a facility in the disabled toilet is very poor planning. Especially if that is at a family friendly location as it can make it very hard for disabled people to access the toilet

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I have increasingly found that the "disabled" toilet is now so multi-usage that it's bloody impossible for physically disabled people to manoeuvre in it! The last one I went in had a baby changing unit sticking out over 1 foot on the right of the door, the huge nappy bin on the left opposite, another bin after the nappy unit...I could barely move my rollator around it and a wheelchair would have had no chance.

Perversely it was in a training centre for people with disabilities, and run by a national disability charity!

Funny how all these multiple uses can never be fitted in the general toilet areas and must encroach on the very few facilities provided for people with disabilities.

Bigstones · 10/12/2023 14:28

Hereforthebunfights · 10/12/2023 14:08

So where do disabled people change their babies?

Depends on the disability. It’s no use to me for example if the changing table is in the accessible loo, because they are too high on the wall- I’d need one with an adjustable table or a full table or something.

You can take an able bodied person with you if you want, change a baby on your knee, use different nappies that are easier (in my case I had a very tall child who walked at 10 months - I put him in pull ups really young so he could be changed standing up with less dexterity needed from me!)

You find a way that works for you.

TinkerTiger · 10/12/2023 14:31

ConflictofInterest · 10/12/2023 10:05

It's because they've got a radar key and don't want to unlock it if someone's in there. I only realised this the other day when I unlocked it with a radar key and alarmed a women who was thankfully only washing her hands. I had been lucky previously when I'd used it it had been empty and I had assumed the key wouldn't work if it was locked from the inside. I was planning to knock in future, what is the preferred way to check if not knocking? Just shouting is anyone in there, is that better?

But you turn the handle up when you go in that adds an additional lock, people need to do this. That way it won't open even with a radar key.

Lovelysausagedogscrumpy · 10/12/2023 14:32

Hereforthebunfights · 10/12/2023 14:08

So where do disabled people change their babies?

Where enlarged unisex accessible toilets are provided to accommodate disabled people and their carers, and provide space for wheelchair users, the facilities are solely intended for the use of people with disabilities, so perhaps baby changing facilities could be incorporated there. But I predict that some non disabled people would inevitably insist that they were entitled to use them. It’s difficult because standard baby changing facilities don’t suit many disabled people, but non disabled people would tend to see all baby changing areas as communal.

Bigstones · 10/12/2023 14:38

TinkerTiger · 10/12/2023 14:31

But you turn the handle up when you go in that adds an additional lock, people need to do this. That way it won't open even with a radar key.

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Apparently they do still open with a radar key, in case the person inside needs assistance.

pam290358 · 10/12/2023 14:39

Neriah · 10/12/2023 14:27

I have increasingly found that the "disabled" toilet is now so multi-usage that it's bloody impossible for physically disabled people to manoeuvre in it! The last one I went in had a baby changing unit sticking out over 1 foot on the right of the door, the huge nappy bin on the left opposite, another bin after the nappy unit...I could barely move my rollator around it and a wheelchair would have had no chance.

Perversely it was in a training centre for people with disabilities, and run by a national disability charity!

Funny how all these multiple uses can never be fitted in the general toilet areas and must encroach on the very few facilities provided for people with disabilities.

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This is the whole problem. Disabled toilets used to be exclusively for disabled people. ‘Accessible’ appears to mean anything goes. My relative who is disabled and uses a wheelchair, has been informed by her boss that the accessible unisex toilet she and a couple of other disabled employees use will now also be used by two trans members of staff as they feel uncomfortable using any of the other facilities. I actually think this is illegal, as I was under the impression that unisex facilities intended to accommodate wheelchair users and disabled people with their carers, were for the sole use of disabled people.

pam290358 · 10/12/2023 14:49

Peablockfeathers · 10/12/2023 12:30

My friend gets this a lot, she has a stoma bag and will use a regular toilet if she can (ie big enough and with some sort of shelf) but the accessible toilet if not. I usually wait nearby and she's had several people banging angrily on the door whilst she's in there, and one woman even shouted at her when she came out and demanded to know why she'd used it- bitch. Lots of people still assume people who require accessibility look a certain way or whatever when that isn't the case. I can get a quick knock perhaps if it's one that's sometimes simply locked, but there's no excuse.

I had this at work. I have a stoma and am an occasional wheelchair user when my condition is playing up. I used the disabled toilet at work to change and deal with leaks etc, because there was a washbasin next to the loo and appropriate medical waste bins. None of my colleagues knew I had a stoma and one in particular called me out on my use of the disabled toilet several times, saying I wasn’t disabled enough to be using it and there were other ‘more disabled’ employees in the building who needed it. In the end I got fed up and asked her to come with me into the ladies. I pulled up my clothing enough for her to see what was going on. She stuttered a half arsed apology and never bothered me again !! Alternatively, if you’re challenged, a simple ‘mind your own business’ is usually enough to send the message !!

LadyKenya · 10/12/2023 15:36

Rosscameasdoody · 10/12/2023 14:16

Then I apologise. I’ve come in for a fair bit of criticism and wasn’t sure if you were referring to my posts. Thank you for clarifying.

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No problem. I know that having disabilities, and trying to navigate life with them is hard enough, without things being made harder by others. I also think that the few posters who have mentioned the facilities needing to be larger, are spot on. Hopefully going forward this will be the case when new buildings are being constructed. There is still a long way to go for people with disabilities to be able to live, and get around, as well as they are able to.

gotomomo · 10/12/2023 15:50

Unfortunately there are entitled people who think it's ok to sit and breastfeed in the disabled toilet. I've waited over 15 minutes recently for a mum and baby to come out, when exasperated I complained she had been unreasonably long she stated she was feeding her (circa 5 month old) baby, sorry what the ... go to a coffee shop like I did when I was breastfeeding!

We have to use the disabled loo because dsd is profoundly disabled! (And adult)

ememem84 · 10/12/2023 15:55

Bigstones · 10/12/2023 13:23

This has been covered twice at least on this thread, and ought to be covered by common sense- but in the unlikely event you genuinely don’t know what to do in this situation (instead of just trying to catch people out with a clever gotcha moment…)

If the only available toilet is an accessible one (as they often are in Costa/starbucks and small venues) then clearly you use that toilet. No one expects you to do anything else.

Disabled people are not stupid- we can tell that one toilet = everyone using it and no one is going to be angry and run you over with their wheelchair.

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I was responding to a poster who said that no one should ever use accessible toilets unless they are disabled. Obviously I use the toilets at work. I’m just pointing out the fact that others were told they should never use them.

Lolovans · 10/12/2023 15:57

pam290358 · 10/12/2023 14:14

But just to clarify, if you read the uploaded article it actually says that the use of these facilities by non disabled people only applies to single sex washrooms with an enlarged cubicle. It does not apply to unisex enlarged facilities which are provided to accommodate wheelchair users and those who care for someone disabled while using the facilities.

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Yes exactly that. Two separate cases - first one is the unisex enlarged cubicle for the sole use of disabled people, which is why it shouldn't be the baby changing facility as well.

And then the second is the enlarged cubicle within the single sex provision which is doesn't seem to be as clear - seems to say that this is for anyone who needs extra space, but not necessarily for disability reasons. When I had 3 under 5 I would use that one as we needed more room for my privacy.

With regard to accommodating gender diverse people, I don't know what the law is.

TinkerTiger · 10/12/2023 16:05

pam290358 · 10/12/2023 14:39

This is the whole problem. Disabled toilets used to be exclusively for disabled people. ‘Accessible’ appears to mean anything goes. My relative who is disabled and uses a wheelchair, has been informed by her boss that the accessible unisex toilet she and a couple of other disabled employees use will now also be used by two trans members of staff as they feel uncomfortable using any of the other facilities. I actually think this is illegal, as I was under the impression that unisex facilities intended to accommodate wheelchair users and disabled people with their carers, were for the sole use of disabled people.

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There are also adults who wear nappies, though they’d be a bit too large for the baby change 😬

pam290358 · 10/12/2023 16:11

TinkerTiger · 10/12/2023 16:05

There are also adults who wear nappies, though they’d be a bit too large for the baby change 😬

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I know it was tongue in cheek but you make a good point. I think if you’re going to put changing facilities within accessible toilets, it’s a good idea to make them suitable for changing an adult. Would be a lot easier for those people with stomas and incontinence issues.

Rosscameasdoody · 10/12/2023 16:13

Lolovans · 10/12/2023 15:57

Yes exactly that. Two separate cases - first one is the unisex enlarged cubicle for the sole use of disabled people, which is why it shouldn't be the baby changing facility as well.

And then the second is the enlarged cubicle within the single sex provision which is doesn't seem to be as clear - seems to say that this is for anyone who needs extra space, but not necessarily for disability reasons. When I had 3 under 5 I would use that one as we needed more room for my privacy.

With regard to accommodating gender diverse people, I don't know what the law is.

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As far as I know gender diverse people are not regarded as disabled so I doubt it would be legal to allow them to access unisex facilities solely intended for the disabled and their carers, as the law stands now.

pam290358 · 10/12/2023 16:16

gotomomo · 10/12/2023 15:50

Unfortunately there are entitled people who think it's ok to sit and breastfeed in the disabled toilet. I've waited over 15 minutes recently for a mum and baby to come out, when exasperated I complained she had been unreasonably long she stated she was feeding her (circa 5 month old) baby, sorry what the ... go to a coffee shop like I did when I was breastfeeding!

We have to use the disabled loo because dsd is profoundly disabled! (And adult)

Yep, same thing has happened to me. There was a heated discussion upthread when a poster suggested calling out ‘piss takers’. I agree that you can’t tell who has a hidden disability just by looking at them, but some people’s behaviour clearly gives them away.

justasking111 · 10/12/2023 16:19

Rosscameasdoody · 10/12/2023 16:13

As far as I know gender diverse people are not regarded as disabled so I doubt it would be legal to allow them to access unisex facilities solely intended for the disabled and their carers, as the law stands now.

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I know premises including schools including my grandchildren where our council decided that gender diverse would be allocated the accessible toilets. My friend is part of the group who inspect premises and make the decision so it's not illegal in Wales.

pam290358 · 10/12/2023 16:37

justasking111 · 10/12/2023 16:19

I know premises including schools including my grandchildren where our council decided that gender diverse would be allocated the accessible toilets. My friend is part of the group who inspect premises and make the decision so it's not illegal in Wales.

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There are different types of accessible toilets and those specifically with facilities which are unisex and specifically to accommodate wheelchair users, and disabled people with their carers, are solely for the use of disabled people. It would therefore be illegal to allow other users to access these spaces. Single sex accessible toilets can be accessed by non disabled users who have difficulty using smaller cubicles for various reasons.

VanGoghsDog · 10/12/2023 16:40

Popatop · 10/12/2023 13:56

If it’s a disabled toilet that works with a raydar key it’s literally the correct thing to do to knock before opening because those keys will open the door from outside even if it is locked from the inside. So the point is to knock to make sure you don’t walk in on people! Surprised you Don’t know this as an accessible toilet user.

How would one know - where do you get the 'rules' from?

My mum was fitted with a stoma earlier this year and as part of the service by the people who provide the bags she was sent a Radar key, there were no instructions, no rules, nothing. How was (she sadly passed away and never actually used it) she to know how to use, that the door is locked whether it's in use or not, that you can't tell if it's occupied, that the 'correct thing to do' is to knock (you don't tend to knock on public loos other than this)? Where would she have got that information do you think?