Banging on the door of the Accessible Toilet

[HunterHearstHelmsley]

Why do people do this?!

I've just used the accessible toilet (I need to use the accessible toilet). I'd barely sat down and someone started banging on the door. I wasn't in there an unreasonable amount of time - probably about 30 seconds when the door banging started and 3 minutes overall. I was in there because I needed to be, banging on the door isn't going to make me quicker. If someone was taking the piss, it'd probably make them stay longer!

It's not the first time it's happened but it's so frustrating. It happened a few weeks ago also, that time was a woman wanting to use the baby change... the baby change wasn't even in the accessible loo!

It's really annoyed me this morning, it's not something I've noticed when using non-accesible toilets so I think it's just an accessible loo thing. But whyyyy?! I can't go faster 😩

That’s the second time you’ve quoted me and not included the full quote - it puts what I’m saying out of context. As I said, I give up now. It’s pointless.

I did it for brevity considering people will only just have read your own post!

It was also completely reasonable to query that sentence specifically

I am not offended in the slightest. I am however, absolutely adamant that I do not owe anyone an explanation on why I am entitled to use the same facilities.

You might very politely approach me and say ”Excuse me, this is a disabled parking space / accessible toilet for the use of people with disabilities“ and I will respond “yes and I need it”

then what?!!! will you be enquiring further? What will you get out of this situation?

The “high heels running” example is just a very exaggerated example. As someone with an invisible disability, I can tell you I walk very slowly and I don’t wear high heels but I do get challenged regularly. It’s easier now I use a walking stick but those people who think they have the right to point out the flaming obvious in a Tesco car park aren’t making a bloody bit of difference to challenging the actual abuse of disabled facilities.

What will you get out of this situation?

The warm glow of righteousness I think.

in actual fact they are trying to find a solution which will benefit all disabled people.

Except the disabled people you're accosting and forcing into a position of being forced to defend themselves, making them scared because they don't know if you'll believe them or not, what proof you'll demand of them, and what your response will be, whether you'll escalate it or not - they don't know if you're one of the "you don't look disabled" brigade who are physically violent or not, just that you're part of the same gang who are dangerous to disabled people because you think it's okay to confront disabled people.

Disabled people experience insanely high amounts of scrutiny and most people are extremely ignorant about what disability is. We live in a very ableist world, and the Tories and the right wing government have spent years whipping up hatred of disabled people and trying to portray us all as workshy shirkers who steal your tax money and that we all live on benefits and get free cars and are probably faking being disabled anyway. People feel entitled to confront disabled people in a way they wouldn't dream of confronting anyone else (even those engaged in obviously antisocial behaviour) because they think "my taxes pay this person's cushy lifestyle".

Look at every single thread on MN that's about disability, they always end with people claiming to have a neighbour who got a free car and has a flatscreen TV from faking disability, the mentality that disabled people are liars out to scam is extremely widespread, and a big part of how that dangerous mentality is spread is this idea that most disabled people aren't really properly disabled.

More than half of all wheelchair users are ambulatory wheelchair users, many mobility impaired people don't use wheelchairs at all, and plenty of disabled people have disabilities that are not mobility-linked (but may still need to use an accessible loo).

The actress Ruth Madeley (who is a wheelchair user) received huge amounts of abuse after appearing on Doctor Who recently because at one point she was seen with her legs crossed, and people assumed that meant she was just faking needing a wheelchair. A LOT of people think wheelchair=completely 100% paralysed from the waist down, and that anyone who isn't completely paralysed is a faker.

To you, it might just be one comment, but to the disabled person, it might be the 50th comment they've received that week, and some of those comments might have been abusive or threatening, or included actual physical violence. I'm assuming you're a wheelchair user yourself, Lovelysausagedogscrumpy, and that does somewhat make a difference, but fundamentally being confronted and policed about your disability isn't okay.

Because all the comments add up, and when you cannot leave your home without the fear of abuse and people thinking they're entitled to confront you and demand personal information about your body, that creates real fear and trauma. Because the fact is you have no way of knowing whether someone who decides to break social norms by confronting a stranger is violent or not, you have five seconds to make a decision how to handle someone acting outside of social norms so as to reduce the chance they'll take the confrontation further.

The answer seems to be don’t speak up in case of causing offence - just put up with it ?

It's really frightening how often minorities speaking up about how much fear and trauma they experience gets reduced down to "being offended." It happens all the time on threads about racism too, this agenda to portray minorities who want to live their lives without abuse are just choosing to be offended.

Disabled people who just want to be able to use a loo without being challenged are not "offended" we are SCARED.

It’s easier now I use a walking stick
Yes I think that is a pretty common experience. My late Dad had rectal cancer at a relatively young age and used disabled toilets to change his colostomy which regularly attracted comments. When he started to walk with a stick the comments instantly dried up even though it was a complete red herring really - he still used regular toilets when he didn't need to change his bag but he now looked disabled enough.
I've noticed similar at various stages after my own operations. I've found an exponential decrease in consideration from other people when external evidence of disability is reduced. I've just had a long spell in plaster and most people were pretty courteous to me when I was out and about. Now on crutches but with no plaster, it's significantly different, and over the next few months my transition to annoying slow middle aged woman that it's ok to shove out of the way will be complete as I learn to walk unaided again. It does make me want to hang on to walking aids when I don't really need them because they provide a modicum of protection from arseholes.

People are so determined to be offended it’s utterly pointless.

And the idea that disabled people who want to live free of being policed and confronted are "choosing" to be offended really is the cherry on top.

It does make me want to hang on to walking aids when I don't really need them because they provide a modicum of protection from arseholes.

^ I kept my aids longer than I really needed to. I couldn't tell you why at the time but reflection it was because the world was so much less scary with them.

Since getting a baby and needing to use the only place with a baby change, I have noticed this happening a lot.

A couple of weeks ago somebody obviously decided I wasn’t changing him fast enough and went and asked for the radar key… and were given it! Thankfully they got an eyeful of baby’s bum and not mine!

The larger toilet cubicle with extra handles, in a larger set of cubicles, in my mind should be used by everybody..

BUT

Should a disabled person come to the front of the queue explaining that they need that toilet they should go first and be given priority (this would mean that 99% of the time they'd have to wait a couple of minutes at most). Especially in cases where there is also a separate disabled loo (for example in the office I work in or at many supermarkets) or there might be multiple of these larger cubicles. To keep a cubicle or cubicles empty at all times in times of queues, does not make sense, and could mean that some people who would not normally need an accessible loo could find themselves in an emergency situation (for example someone with mild IBS, a really heavy period, a weak bladder or someone just very very desperate for a wee).

People who are not disabled choosing to use the accessible loo when other options are available, that's wrong. People choosing to use an entirely separate disabled toilet, where there are other toilets (men are awful for using them for poos in the workplace) are also wrong.

The real core issue is though, that we just don't have enough toilets.

No, you are wrong. There's no regulation or law and many places have one large accessible toilet only. Accessible toilets are so disabled people CAN access the toilet- not so they can avoid a queue.

Where I work, there are only two staff toilets. One is accessible, the other is not! There are currently no staff with disabilities- it is there in case we have visitors that are or staff in the future that are. Are you telling me we should all use the one toilet and leave the other free just in case a disabled person happens to visit. If we employ someone with a disabilty will all the 29 staff have to share one toilet while the one person with a disability has exclusive use of the accessible toilet?

@DotAndCarryOne2 Sorry but you are wrong. Where an enlarged stand alone unisex accessible toilet room is provided it’s intended solely for the use of disabled people, wheelchair users, and their carers. It’s not for general use. Where smaller single sex facilities are provided within standard male or female toilet facilities, they can be used by non disabled people as they are intended for other users who may, for whatever reason, need a larger space than a standard cubicle.

You are incorrect. They are accessible toilets that anyone can use. There is nothing in law to stop the several public from using them. But as a courtesy people should reserve them for those in need.

As it is impossible to tell whether someone has a disability or illness it is impossible to judge anyone using them anyway.

"Common sense" like your completely inaccurate assessment that a disabled person could never run a few metres in heels? You don't have sense and you don't have a point.

And this is why somebody needs to spend five years in medical school followed by several years' experience before they can question me, or anyone, about their disability. Shame on you.

In my work I am the only woman so I get exclusive use of ladies toilet/shower/ locker room. Thirty blokes share the gents ( it is bigger with two loos / two showers and some urinals).

There are people who would quite like to use my shower room and given I’m only onsite for a few hours a week I can understand that having a third of the facilities sit empty most of the time might get annoying. They don’t though because there are rules.

I suspect if a disabled staff member joined the team management would send a message round asking those who do not need it to avoid the accessible facility.

I knock because on some of them, if you turn your key it opens the door even if someone is using it.

It's usually quite a polite knock though.

This is really depressing, I do wonder if it's because there are so many CF about (just look at this thread), so people basically don't trust anyone anymore and don't give people the benefit of the doubt. I must say, I myslef have become much more cynical of people over the past few years (not about this topic specifically, but things in general). It's the breakdown of a well functioning society really, where it's every person for themselves and to hell with anyone else. It's very sad

I've thought a lot about using a stick even though it doesn't help me, but just as some kind of visual representation of the pain I'm in. But then I think no, fuck it and fuck the people who think they have the right to judge my disability.

I’m not in the habit of challenging people because up until recently, I had a friend with cystic fibrosis. She was young and pretty and able to walk approximately 10-20 meters on a good day. After that, a wheelchair was absolutely needed. She was challenged frequently.
I must admit that I often think about the dickheads that prop in disabled car parks with the engine running while they are waiting for someone they’ve just dropped off.

Why would they? Being in a wheelchair doesn't mean you need the toilet to be available immediately with no queue does it? Disabled doesn't = bowel problem! The toilet is there so that we can offer wheelchair users the use of the toilet, not the right to never wait!

Very bad mannered and entitled to knock on a toilet door.
Disability can be invisible eg people who need to self catheterise but are able to walk perfectly well without aids.

There is still a lot of ignorance regarding disability.

Where an enlarged stand alone unisex accessible toilet room is provided it’s intended solely for the use of disabled people, wheelchair users, and their carers. It’s not for general use

That isn't true - if you are eg in Costa and the only loo is like that, anyone can use it. They just make their sole loo accessible because they don't have space for more.

However, without wanting to play disability top trumps, people in wheelchairs get priority in my view. If you have a health condition that doesn't affect your mobility, you can find another loo to use. The person in a wheelchair can't.

It's a bit like using a lift because you can. If you can use the stairs, do, and leave the lift for those who need it.

Why would they? Being in a wheelchair doesn't mean you need the toilet to be available immediately with no queue does it? Disabled doesn't = bowel problem! The toilet is there so that we can offer wheelchair users the use of the toilet, not the right to never wait

but it does mean they can't easily find another one that is wide enough to allow them inside with their wheelchair.

There is some confusion as to accessible toilets on this thread. If single sex enlarged accessible cubicles are provided within standard male/female toilets they can be used by anyone who requires extra space - not necessarily exclusively disabled people. Where a stand alone unisex accessible toilet room is provided separately from standard male/female facilities, that is exclusively for the use of disabled people and their carers. It’s not a separate toilet to be utilised when you can’t be bothered to wait in a queue.

I’ve volunteered for disability charities helping with PIP applications for many years and I’ve never come across a wheelchair user yet who hasn’t got a bowel or bladder problem, and in most cases both. Any disability which affects the spine will almost certainly carry with it some effect on bodily function and with conditions like Spina Bifida there can be serious urgency or total loss of control - whether or not the person is in a wheelchair and many other disabilities commonly include incontinence and urgency, not to mention the use of catheters and stomas.

If we expect disabled people to work and contribute do you not think it reasonable to provide proper facilities so that they are not put at risk of the humiliation of having an accident at work because they can’t access facilities which are actually meant for them ?

Sorry but it is true. Have a look at building regulations and the Equality Act. Dispensation is granted where premises are too small to provide standard facilities as well as an accessible toilet, and they make the accessible loo available to all, so that they are technically fulfilling their obligation to provide accessible facilities for those who need them. Where premises provide standard male/female facilities and a unisex stand alone accessible toilet, it is for the use of disabled people and their carers, and not up for grabs when you don’t feel like queuing.