Requesting more maintenance?

ANONforthisone67374 · 2023-12-09T09:22:27+00:00

My ex earns more than when we originally agreed child maintenance. Am I being unreasonable to request we review the amount he pays? He's self employed so CMS isn't an option as my friend said they can just hide the money but is it worth the hassle of requesting we review it? My friend said there's no need for me to struggle when he could be paying more but I know he will just say I'm only after him for money bla bla I don't know his exact wage but I would put it at about 3.5-4k a month he currently pays £600 for three children 7, 8 & 12 he has them maybe 2-4 max nights a month Eta I do also work part time but as I don't have childcare I can't work more hours. I do shift work 5am starts some shifts finish 1-2am so it's not easy to find childcare.

Dotcheck · 09/12/2023 09:24

Of course ask.
How much does he have them? That impacts maintenance

Original poster

ANONforthisone67374 · 09/12/2023 09:25

Dotcheck · 09/12/2023 09:24

Of course ask.
How much does he have them? That impacts maintenance

Between 2-4 nights a month

OP posts:

IDoLikeToBeByTheSea · 09/12/2023 09:30

How much more would you ask for? I just used the calculator and based on 1 night a week and earning £3.5k per month, you’d be entitled to £663 so he isn’t paying far off that at the moment.
Is it likely he would stop paying and tell you to go through CMS? If he is and is likely to have manipulated S/E figures, you could get a lot less than now.

Wren43 · 09/12/2023 09:41

I’ve just worked it out on the CMS calculator and based on 4 nights a month 4k salary would be £631 a month for 3 children (assuming no dependents) and 3.5k salary would be £567 a month. That’s assuming he has no allowable work expenses , pension payments etc that he is rightly entitled to have disregarded from his salary. Sounds like he was trying to be generous if he was already paying this before his salary went up to this. Have you been on entitled.com to check your receiving all the benefits your entitled to or would be consider having the children a bit more to take the strain off you?

Original poster

ANONforthisone67374 · 09/12/2023 09:42

IDoLikeToBeByTheSea · 09/12/2023 09:30

How much more would you ask for? I just used the calculator and based on 1 night a week and earning £3.5k per month, you’d be entitled to £663 so he isn’t paying far off that at the moment.
Is it likely he would stop paying and tell you to go through CMS? If he is and is likely to have manipulated S/E figures, you could get a lot less than now.

Edited

Is that based on 3.5k after he has paid tax etc as that's what he's left with after that's accounted for?

OP posts:

Wren43 · 09/12/2023 09:44

ANONforthisone67374 · 09/12/2023 09:42

Is that based on 3.5k after he has paid tax etc as that's what he's left with after that's accounted for?

Edited

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No it would be pre tax figures as that’s what the CMS calculator asks for, is this 3.5k pre or post tax?

Thedm · 09/12/2023 09:45

If he is paying tax on all his earnings then he is reporting correctly to HMRC, so CMS can get an accurate figure. You know him; would he risk his business to start hiding money and lieing on his tax return?

Original poster

ANONforthisone67374 · 09/12/2023 09:46

Wren43 · 09/12/2023 09:44

No it would be pre tax figures as that’s what the CMS calculator asks for, is this 3.5k pre or post tax?

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3.5k post is what he receives after sometimes more if he does Overtime

OP posts:

Wren43 · 09/12/2023 09:51

You would need to state his pre tax income, impossible to know what fair rate is using CMS. He really doesn’t sound like someone who would start hiding his income if he’s been voluntarily paying £600 a month all this time. Maybe just ask him if you can do it via the CMS calculator rather actually go to CMS, is what a lot of parents do

tescocreditcard · 09/12/2023 09:51

Yes, ask for more if he's earning g more.

Wren43 · 09/12/2023 09:53

How much more were you hoping for, by all means can ask him for a review of the maintenance but doesn’t sound like you would have a case of being aggrieved if he doesn’t agree

Original poster

ANONforthisone67374 · 09/12/2023 10:01

I don't even know how much more I would ask for I have a shortfall of £1-200 a month where I'm in overdraft so around that amount really. I will add there has been many months where he hasn't had them at all it's very inconsistent it's not a guaranteed amount he has them. He does no school runs or drop offs or meetings, appointments, nothing

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glossypeach · 09/12/2023 10:07

Honestly, I don’t know your ex but I know a lot of people ask for more and the ex refuses to pay and you end up going to child maintenance where you end up getting the bare minimum. My ex is also self employed earning a decent wage and somehow has fiddled with his tax returns so child maintenance claim he earns less than £7 a week? So I get nothing.

if your children’s father is reasonable you could make a list of expenses and how much you have to pay out so he can see how much it costs and not just look like you’re asking for more money for the sake of money. If he is unreasonable, as awful as it is - I would just keep to the current amount.

Wren43 · 09/12/2023 10:07

ANONforthisone67374 · 09/12/2023 10:01

I don't even know how much more I would ask for I have a shortfall of £1-200 a month where I'm in overdraft so around that amount really. I will add there has been many months where he hasn't had them at all it's very inconsistent it's not a guaranteed amount he has them. He does no school runs or drop offs or meetings, appointments, nothing

That sounds quite reasonable if is his post tax income and doesn’t even have them 4 nights a month and your not able to ever rely on him, I would just say you've been struggling and can you have a review of the maintenance. I personally wouldn’t take it any further if he says no. Is not worth the hassle with amount he’s already paying. I did personally as ex was paying less than half CMS amount plus wanting to reduce time he had children but not really worth it for the angst in your case

Wren43 · 09/12/2023 10:09

P.s. I’ve got family who are on the other side of the coin and they’ve not been able to necessarily increase maintenance at time asked but when they got their next pay rise and felt able to them they did offer then

Gazelda · 09/12/2023 10:15

If you know him well enough to have knowledge of his income, maybe it would be better if you had a conversation with him and explained how costs have gone up and you're struggling.

Ask if he'd cover the kids uniform, or pay for football subs, or whatever.

And if I were you, I'd stop calling it maintenance and start using the term child support. A small detail, but it makes it clear that you're asking for extra help for the kids' costs rather than household finances which some people (unreasonably) believe isn't their responsibility.

Original poster

ANONforthisone67374 · 09/12/2023 10:18

Thank you all. That's the thing I can't do anything like increase hours to make up the difference as he doesn't help with the kids at all and even when having them it's inconsistent so I can't even rely on that.

I will ask and see what he says he's manipulative and narcissistic so I expect it to be a no but worth a try.

OP posts:

Wren43 · 09/12/2023 10:20

glossypeach · 09/12/2023 10:07

Honestly, I don’t know your ex but I know a lot of people ask for more and the ex refuses to pay and you end up going to child maintenance where you end up getting the bare minimum. My ex is also self employed earning a decent wage and somehow has fiddled with his tax returns so child maintenance claim he earns less than £7 a week? So I get nothing.

if your children’s father is reasonable you could make a list of expenses and how much you have to pay out so he can see how much it costs and not just look like you’re asking for more money for the sake of money. If he is unreasonable, as awful as it is - I would just keep to the current amount.

Agree, super rubbish that your ex cooked his books so gave you nothing :( However when CMS rates used on actual true income are used then they are a fair amount and don’t agree with MNs who refer to it as being ‘the bare minimum’ It is actually quite a significant proportion of someone’s salary they take and yes I’ve been a single mum but seems like a lot of MNs forget that the ex should be able to live a decent life and have a home too. In fact I was actually financially better off as a single mum receiving all the top ups than what we had left as a married couple with young children. Often see single mothers on here complaining they can’t afford this or that for their children and guess what neither can a lot of married couples. Yes I know people who afford 5k holidays and £3-400 Christmas presents for their kids etc so I think that skews people’s perceptions of what’s normal. Our children are happy and we can’t afford anything like that

Wren43 · 09/12/2023 10:22

Good luck, try best to stay on good terms with him and even if says no he might consider it in the future or agree to contribute towards big expenses/clubs etc

Rjahdhdvd · 09/12/2023 10:23

The other option is to ask him to pay directly for things; I don’t like this option as I don’t think it’s how it should work but when people are self employed and can hide their income it can be an easier option to say could you pay for this club, these clothes etc

Original poster

ANONforthisone67374 · 09/12/2023 10:24

Wren43 · 09/12/2023 10:07

That sounds quite reasonable if is his post tax income and doesn’t even have them 4 nights a month and your not able to ever rely on him, I would just say you've been struggling and can you have a review of the maintenance. I personally wouldn’t take it any further if he says no. Is not worth the hassle with amount he’s already paying. I did personally as ex was paying less than half CMS amount plus wanting to reduce time he had children but not really worth it for the angst in your case

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This is so shit and while I believe he's doing everything above board I don't know if he would change that to pay less. He lives an extravagant lifestyle holidays clothes watches etc so there's no doubt he could afford it but you're right sometimes it's not worth the hassle. I'll mention it but I won't force him

OP posts:

Wren43 · 09/12/2023 10:37

ANONforthisone67374 · 09/12/2023 10:24

This is so shit and while I believe he's doing everything above board I don't know if he would change that to pay less. He lives an extravagant lifestyle holidays clothes watches etc so there's no doubt he could afford it but you're right sometimes it's not worth the hassle. I'll mention it but I won't force him

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He probably would if he thought you were being unfair, I’ve found unfortunately does cause a lot of angst getting the CMS involved (not CMS themselves as such) just that change to you effectively forcing them to do something which is not something men/ex’s usually like at all. My ex is still bitter years later that went to CMS and I never even ever asked him for anything extra or told them when he reduced his time with the children significantly. I don’t regret it as we would have been in a lot more debt now if we hadn’t but in your case it’s really not worth it. What they give voluntarily in good faith causes a lot less angst long term than what is they feel is forced out of them.

Thedm · 09/12/2023 11:13

Wren43 · 09/12/2023 10:09

P.s. I’ve got family who are on the other side of the coin and they’ve not been able to necessarily increase maintenance at time asked but when they got their next pay rise and felt able to them they did offer then

Um, it’s like you’re making them out as good people when they’re not. If they were earning more than when the maintenance was agreed, they should have increased immediately. It actually isn’t a choice; it’s a legal requirement. They should not have told their ex to wait for the next pay rise.

Wren43 · 09/12/2023 11:18

Thedm · 09/12/2023 11:13

Um, it’s like you’re making them out as good people when they’re not. If they were earning more than when the maintenance was agreed, they should have increased immediately. It actually isn’t a choice; it’s a legal requirement. They should not have told their ex to wait for the next pay rise.

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I think you’ve misunderstood, they were originally paying a little bit more than CMS amount and pay rise took them to CMS equivalent but didn’t necessarily feel able to increase maintenance at that time

TealSapphire · 09/12/2023 11:21

Of course if he's earning more he should be paying more! Why the hell should you have to be behind each month while he's living the life?

Don't dance around it OP. 'The children's expenses are x amount more than I earn. We need to both contribute to their upbringing'.

I hate this concept that you should be eternally grateful for anything you get in child support. Particularly where the dad does no heavy lifting and has the kids minimal time. They're HIS bloody kids too.