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Original poster

To be curious about MIL after learning she doesn't know the English alphabet

57 replies

kookykalki · 07/12/2023 20:18

MIL was born and raised in Kenya and came to England in the 70s. She speaks English perfectly fine and raised both her children who both speak English perfectly. Neither child actually speaks Swahili and also don't understand it as MIL and FIL only ever spoke English to them.

Yesterday I was on a videocall with MIL as I am on mat leave and she likes to see DC as she can't visit very regularly. She was singing the alphabet and said 'A B C D' paused for a few seconds and sang 'E F G' and then paused and then laughed and said 'granny doesn't know ABCs'. All of this was addressed to DC and I was sitting nearby. I didn't say anything as I didn't want to embarrass her..

She is 66 and generally healthy but could this be an early sign of dementia?
I don't actually know much about growing up in Kenya and how much English is taught in their schools so it could be that she doesn't actually know it? She was a very traditional housewife by the sounds of it and I feel like it might be plausible she doesn't know her alphabet because sometimes I hear DH tell her things like how far away a country is, like you might explain it to a little child or for example how she will need to leave the house at 1pm if she wants to arrive at ours for 2pm because it's an hour away etc. I suspect she could be ND sometimes. I've tried to speak to DH about that in the past but I think he feels a bit offended by it..

Back to the dementia suspicion. I could be wrong. But also DH is so avoidant and I feel like MIL is very anti-healthcare (she thinks the NHS make money by killing people) and I think it's important to deal with these things.

OP posts:
Pipistrellus · 07/12/2023 20:21

The order isn't important except for things that are in alphabetical order, and many of those you could just scroll down without knowing it by heart.

TinyRebel · 07/12/2023 20:24

Judging by the state of the filing at work, there are plenty of people who are perfectly literate but don’t know their alphabet.🙄

Pooheadbumbum · 07/12/2023 20:27

I have a law degree and worked as a solicitor in the City and I still get a bit ropey on the alphabet towards the end!

Pipistrellus · 07/12/2023 20:27

I mumbled the lmnop bit and didn't actually know it for years. I could read before school.

BendingSpoons · 07/12/2023 20:28

We have German relatives. My DD and DN had a very confusing game of battleships, as some of the sounds are different, particularly the vowels (e/i was confusing). I don't know enough about Swahili, but could she have felt awkward that she might get it wrong?

Pipistrellus · 07/12/2023 20:30

Yes, it could be that she doesn't know all the letter names as you don't need them to read and write.

LauderSyme · 07/12/2023 20:31

Could it just be that she couldn't recall it in the immediate moment?

I had to recite the Lords Prayer every morning at school but when I was (surprisingly) asked to lead the children in it at Sunday School I forgot pretty much everything after "Our Father..."

Not the same I know, as she wasn't being suddenly put on the spot in public, but maybe simple brain fog like that? Does she exhibit any other signs of forgetfulness?

HardcoreLadyType · 07/12/2023 20:31

Tricky.

I wouldn’t assume dementia on the basis of her not knowing the alphabet - she may never really have learnt it properly at school, and English was not her first language.

If I were you, I would be on the lookout for other things, a little, but 66 is quite young for dementia, in the main (although I know sometimes it does affect people that young).

LittleGreenDragons · 07/12/2023 20:31

Have you ever seen her read something?

Flump8 · 07/12/2023 20:33

Does she send you written messages? (i.e. can she read and write?) If so, maybe she just doesn't know the order of the alphabet.

CaptainMyCaptain · 07/12/2023 20:36

You don't need to know letter of the the alphabet in order to be able to read. To be honest, I'd be more worried that she thinks the NHS makes money out of killing people.

SecondUsername4me · 07/12/2023 20:38

The alphabet is just a schedule of letters. If you've never been taught the schedule, or managed to pick it up yourself, how would you know it?

It doesn't affect her ability to read, write, spell.

So actually, what is embarrassing about it?

JeezWhatNext · 07/12/2023 20:38

Can she read?

Original poster
kookykalki · 07/12/2023 20:39

Flump8 · 07/12/2023 20:33

Does she send you written messages? (i.e. can she read and write?) If so, maybe she just doesn't know the order of the alphabet.

She does write messages. But also they're a bit random eg. Nobody has messaged in the group chat in 5 days and she'll write something like "he not suppose to open packet that way, silly boy". And it's in reference to a YouTube video she watched and she's just sharing her commentary. And none of us will know what she's talking about

OP posts:
MyCatIsPlotting · 07/12/2023 20:45

It might reflect more on how she learned English than on her cognitive abilities. I speak a number of other languages, one of which has a different alphabet. I can read fluently in that language and recognise all the letters but I would struggle to recall them all in the right order and certainly wouldn’t be familiar with songs for children around that alphabet. Learning the alphabet was a means to an end for me!

Obviously you know her better than we do, but I would have thought that something like the above may be applicable - it’s not the first sign of dementia I’d expect to see.

GinnyBee · 07/12/2023 20:47

I'm super fluent in English, I've lived in English speaking countries for 15 years out of my 36 years of life, and I sometimes have to pause for especially G, H, and J, when reciting the alphabet. It's not that I don't know it, the alphabet is the same in Finnish, but in Finnish the letters are named the same as the phonics and 'hoo' being 'haitch' just doesn't feel natural.

TheYearOfSmallThings · 07/12/2023 20:50

Alphabets are funny because they are so basic but different in every language, both in the letters they hold (even if both use the Latin alphabet as Swahili does) and the pronunciation of the letters.

If you look up a pronunciation table of the Swahili alphabet you will see what she learned. Similar but different can be extra confusing! I have always had trouble spelling in other languages - vowel sounds especially.

ModestMoon · 07/12/2023 20:51

Agree that she probably doesn't know the names of the actual letters in English. I was raised in a different country and had to learn the English name for the letters, but speak is my native language.

nighttimereader · 07/12/2023 20:51

I have been living and working in a professional job in UK for 11 years, English is not my first language, however, despite dreaming and thinking in English, I still struggle with the English alphabet. The sounds of the single letters make no sense to me and I am incapable to memorise them.
If I need to spell anything I will use military alphabet.
Your MIL might have the same problem.

TheYearOfSmallThings · 07/12/2023 20:53

Actually just try spelling any word in French. I can see the word in my head but can I say the letters? I am struggling.

TheCatterall · 07/12/2023 20:55

I speak Spanish but if asked to recite the alphabet in Spanish I’d struggle and there would be several pauses and blank bits whilst I try to get it straight in my head. I’m 49 so not at dementia stage yet.

as for her written work - I find some languages have such a different way of structuring sentences that it’s easy to make mistakes.

good luck with this@kookykalki i don’t envy you having to deal with her nhs views as she ages and needs more care.

Ladybughello · 07/12/2023 20:59

kookykalki · 07/12/2023 20:18

MIL was born and raised in Kenya and came to England in the 70s. She speaks English perfectly fine and raised both her children who both speak English perfectly. Neither child actually speaks Swahili and also don't understand it as MIL and FIL only ever spoke English to them.

Yesterday I was on a videocall with MIL as I am on mat leave and she likes to see DC as she can't visit very regularly. She was singing the alphabet and said 'A B C D' paused for a few seconds and sang 'E F G' and then paused and then laughed and said 'granny doesn't know ABCs'. All of this was addressed to DC and I was sitting nearby. I didn't say anything as I didn't want to embarrass her..

She is 66 and generally healthy but could this be an early sign of dementia?
I don't actually know much about growing up in Kenya and how much English is taught in their schools so it could be that she doesn't actually know it? She was a very traditional housewife by the sounds of it and I feel like it might be plausible she doesn't know her alphabet because sometimes I hear DH tell her things like how far away a country is, like you might explain it to a little child or for example how she will need to leave the house at 1pm if she wants to arrive at ours for 2pm because it's an hour away etc. I suspect she could be ND sometimes. I've tried to speak to DH about that in the past but I think he feels a bit offended by it..

Back to the dementia suspicion. I could be wrong. But also DH is so avoidant and I feel like MIL is very anti-healthcare (she thinks the NHS make money by killing people) and I think it's important to deal with these things.

Are you serious? It’s not her first language. Although she’s learned to speak English fluently (brilliant), it seems very unlikely she would have been taught English as systematically and carefully as you seem to have in mind! Be a bit more patient

jazzhands84 · 07/12/2023 21:01

I speak an Asian language as a second language and can only sing the alphabet as that's the way I learnt it! Seems funny now I think about it.

Original poster
kookykalki · 07/12/2023 21:01

Ok thanks guys, I'm just being silly sand seeing problems where problems don't exist

OP posts:
ComtesseDeSpair · 07/12/2023 21:02

I would just assume that many decades ago in Kenya, learning English did not include learning to recite the alphabet with a jaunty little mnemonic song to aid the recall. There are also numerous languages where this is not an aspect of taught literacy, even though “the alphabet song” seems like the most basic start to literacy and you’d forgiven for assuming it would be a universal thing.