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AIBU?

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Original poster

To be curious about MIL after learning she doesn't know the English alphabet

57 replies

kookykalki · 07/12/2023 20:18

MIL was born and raised in Kenya and came to England in the 70s. She speaks English perfectly fine and raised both her children who both speak English perfectly. Neither child actually speaks Swahili and also don't understand it as MIL and FIL only ever spoke English to them.

Yesterday I was on a videocall with MIL as I am on mat leave and she likes to see DC as she can't visit very regularly. She was singing the alphabet and said 'A B C D' paused for a few seconds and sang 'E F G' and then paused and then laughed and said 'granny doesn't know ABCs'. All of this was addressed to DC and I was sitting nearby. I didn't say anything as I didn't want to embarrass her..

She is 66 and generally healthy but could this be an early sign of dementia?
I don't actually know much about growing up in Kenya and how much English is taught in their schools so it could be that she doesn't actually know it? She was a very traditional housewife by the sounds of it and I feel like it might be plausible she doesn't know her alphabet because sometimes I hear DH tell her things like how far away a country is, like you might explain it to a little child or for example how she will need to leave the house at 1pm if she wants to arrive at ours for 2pm because it's an hour away etc. I suspect she could be ND sometimes. I've tried to speak to DH about that in the past but I think he feels a bit offended by it..

Back to the dementia suspicion. I could be wrong. But also DH is so avoidant and I feel like MIL is very anti-healthcare (she thinks the NHS make money by killing people) and I think it's important to deal with these things.

OP posts:
Scirocco · 07/12/2023 21:02

It's entirely possible to speak and read and write in a language without being able to confidently recite a rote-learned alphabet.

I can speak, read and write Arabic (although not as well as your MIL knows English, probably!) and I can get mixed up in the middle of the Arabic alphabet. I can recite the alphabet in French, but not German.

I wouldn't worry about dementia based on that.

Resembleflower · 07/12/2023 21:03

English is my husbands 3rd language, I’ve just asked him to recite the alphabet he can’t lol. He speaks English perfectly.

SecondUsername4me · 07/12/2023 21:06

The alphabet isn't like numbers, where the value of 2 is one more than 1 etc. Its a (on the face of it) random layout.

The alphabet doesn't bear any weight whatsoever on how letters are then used in words.

Starseeking · 07/12/2023 21:10

The woman is Kenyan and doesn't know the English alphabet; she has nothing to be embarrassed about, given English is not her first language.

Haydenn · 07/12/2023 21:11

The middle bit is all a bit of a muddle for me to be honest.

Tinkerbyebye · 07/12/2023 21:13

My guess is she knows the alphabet just not the stupid song

tensmum1964 · 07/12/2023 21:14

My Dad speaks four languages fluently. English is his second and he only went to school from ages 7 to 12 and was never taught English there. I doubt he could recite the alphabet in any of the languages he speaks.

SecondUsername4me · 07/12/2023 21:15

A sensible alphabet layout would be to put q and u next to each other.

But then, also, it would make sense to put the vowels together at the start.

Or maybe we have an alphabet listed in order of use?

BrimfulOfMash · 07/12/2023 21:18

Why on earth should anyone who has learned to speak and write in another language that doesn’t have the same alphabet in the same order, be able to recite the alphabet in a particular order, unless they have specifically needed to learn it like that?

Molly0 · 07/12/2023 21:19

Bright literate work experience kids don't know alphabetical order.

Simonjt · 07/12/2023 21:26

English isn’t my first language, but I did go to school in the UK from the age of 9, I can’t recite the English alphabet (despite having an eight and two year old), I speak Swedish, I can’t recite the alphabet. I can sound out words, but I’m not sure what sounds to make in the alphabet. I also speak urdu, I do know and can ‘sing’ the alphabet.

ChocolateCinderToffee · 07/12/2023 21:55

I can recite the alphabet in German but not in French simply because I’ve worked in an office in Germany and did masses of filing.

GrassWillBeGreener · 07/12/2023 22:36

Can I suggest that this is a great prompt to talk to her about her own childhood? It will be interesting to know what her experiences were, what it was like, so you can share "tales of granny" with your children one day. She is likely to appreciate being asked, and perhaps finding out if there are other nursery rhymes or games she can share or teach you is a lovely way of retaining some of her heritage.

In the hopefully unlikely scenario that very early dementia is actually in the picture (no real reason from what you describe to think this), then engaging with past memories can be particularly productive.

Original poster
kookykalki · 07/12/2023 22:51

GrassWillBeGreener · 07/12/2023 22:36

Can I suggest that this is a great prompt to talk to her about her own childhood? It will be interesting to know what her experiences were, what it was like, so you can share "tales of granny" with your children one day. She is likely to appreciate being asked, and perhaps finding out if there are other nursery rhymes or games she can share or teach you is a lovely way of retaining some of her heritage.

In the hopefully unlikely scenario that very early dementia is actually in the picture (no real reason from what you describe to think this), then engaging with past memories can be particularly productive.

Oh thank you, that's such a lovely idea! I am actually so so pleased you suggested this. DH absolutely never speaks about his childhood and I have always felt like it's a missing piece of knowing him and I've worried our DC might never learn about his heritage.

OP posts:
whoateallthecookies · 07/12/2023 22:59

Do you know how much schooling she had? Unless she was pretty lucky (by Kenyan standards), she may well have had no secondary education, and possibly incomplete primary. Plus, if it was a state school, there will have been huge classes and very few resources. She's clearly literate (and I've met a good number of East Africans who aren't, especially women of her age - I used to live there), but I wouldn't be immediately worried about dementia.

Itajustagig · 07/12/2023 23:03

My mother's over 70, British for generations and doesn't know the alphabet. She seems to have got through life just fine albeit with a lack of confidence which comes from being insecure with the basics. I'd not worry, OP.

AnonyLonnymouse · 07/12/2023 23:03

Actually, I have a family member of a very similar age who also grew up in Kenya and this rings a bell? She was taught English in school but some aspects were, understandably, taught differently. The differences emerged when our DC was a similar age.

RADIOOFF · 07/12/2023 23:13

Talking endlessly about their childhoods is probably one of the most valuable things my parents did for me and my sibling. Often around the dining table, or just as background commentary on whatever was going on in our worlds. It’s meant that we grew up not only with a rounded understanding of them, as actual individual people, but also with a comprehensive conception of their home countries - in complete opposition to the paternalistic, colonialist crap churned out by the UK media during the late 20th / early 21st centuries.

So, aside from reassuring yourself of your MIL’s cognitive security - I’d say it’s vital that you not only get her to talk about her background but coax your partner into sharing much more of himself with his children. There’s an awful lot more to bringing up a child than simply feeding and clothing and sending to school. Talking to them - using your own history to help them locate themselves in the world - it’s the most important thing.

NonSequentialRhubarb · 07/12/2023 23:13

I speak three languages in addition to my native English. All Latin characters, but I don't think I confidently remember the alphabet in any of them except French which I learned young enough to learn the alphabet song.

SutWytTi · 07/12/2023 23:15

I think she learnt English as a second language.

BalloonsInWater · 07/12/2023 23:15

I have a maths related degree and work in the field, and struggle with the difference between 6 and 7 when said out loud, in any language. Literally said the wrong one to the children just yesterday but managed to gloss over it.

RomeoandJomeo · 07/12/2023 23:38

I can imagine it's the kind of thing you miss out on if your early education isn't in English. Reminds me if a story I once heard of a student studying maths in an English University who's first language was Welsh - he was fine with advanced mathematical terms, but had to ask a fellow student what a rectangle was.

RomeoandJomeo · 07/12/2023 23:40

BalloonsInWater · 07/12/2023 23:15

I have a maths related degree and work in the field, and struggle with the difference between 6 and 7 when said out loud, in any language. Literally said the wrong one to the children just yesterday but managed to gloss over it.

I have to think about whether I mean 'letter' or 'number'... have always got the words muddled...

SgtJuneAckland · 07/12/2023 23:46

I think it's perfectly normal, I speak German pretty well, can read and write including complex topics. I just tried to sing the alphabet in German I got stuck around L.

DS used to sing yellow yellow pea instead of LMNOP .

I don't think her inability to sing an alphabet song in her second language is indicative of any cognitive decline.

Nevermind31 · 07/12/2023 23:59

Bilingual speaker here. English is not my mother tongue, but I speak it perfectly fine.
of course I know the alphabet in English, know all the sounds, names of letters etc.
However, abc is what you learn off by heart. When you first learn it. And you know it in that language.
So even though I think/ dream in English… I hesitate when doing the alphabet in English - I have to think twice (same when trying to say my phone number in another language - I know it as a sound combination, and it is different in a different language).
so it wouldn’t set off alarm bells for me… the joys of being a bilingual speaker