To think that God doesn't exist and is a manmade concept

[Perimama]

As it is taboo to talk religion politics with people socially, I often wonder whether many people think like me. As a species we have dismissed all the other "Gods" ie Greek gods etc. What makes the Christian God any different? I wasn't born into a religious household although I was baptized Christian. The whole concept seems so unbelievable to me.

As it is taboo to talk religion politics with people socially, I often wonder whether many people think like me.

You wonder whether many people are atheists? You're all about proof and science and what can be actually demonstrated, and you can't figure out whether there are many atheists?

I wouldn't expect it to ever vanish completely, but I don't think it's coincidence either that decline in religiosity tends to go hand-in-hand with rising education levels and economic prosperity.

One of the other factors which seems correlated with declining religiosity of a country is having a functioning judicial and policing system.

I'm Jewish, practicing and an atheist.

I guess people needed God/s when they couldn't explain much about the world, so the 'Beardy guy in the sky' idea isn't really necessary any more. I think some people do relate to God/direct prayers to the idea now of 'The better part that exists in everyone' as a focus instead.

I still find synagogue a meaningful spiritual experience, coming together with other people. But no, not a 'God' person.

@Echobelly are you able to freely talk about not believing in God with others you meet at synagogue?

I'm almost 100% sure that when people say God they don't mean an actual being but more a general higher power like nature or physics but with some human judgement thrown in. Certainly anyone with a theology degree or who trained as a minister. God is omnipotent omnipresent and transcendent. And not a person but a force.

The dumb kind of religion for the masses is a different concept of an old man on a cloud watching you which is like a child, I doubt most truly believe that.

I don't believe any of it as a psychologist I think the reasons people believe are easily explained by brain chemistry, sentience and evolution. These explain the human need for faith in a higher power and the 'reason' we exist.

There is strong historical evidence for events in the bible

Really? Which ones?

Otoh, there's an awful lot in the Bible for which there's no historical evidence whatever. For instance, that very historical sounding start to Luke 2. Odd - frankly incredible - that the Romans don't seem to have kept any record of Caesar decreeing all the world should be taxed, nor of the peculiarly impractical methodology of requiring people to go to their own city for this purpose.

I'm almost 100% sure that when people say God they don't mean an actual being but more a general higher power like nature or physics but with some human judgement thrown in. Certainly anyone with a theology degree or who trained as a minister. God is omnipotent omnipresent and transcendent. And not a person but a force.

Some, perhaps. But this really isn't how most Christians seem to describe god. They talk about having a 'personal relationship with Jesus'. The doctrine of the Trinity (which tbh I suspect not many actually think about or consider how it evolved) describes 'god in three persons'.

@jersydress - yes, I reckon most people at our synagogue don't believe in God in the 'Bloke in the Sky' mode, I'm pretty sure I have had those discussions with people.

https://crossexamined.org/really-census-time-caesar-augustus/

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Evidence-Bible-Clive-Anderson/dp/1846254167?ref=d6k_applink_bb_dls&dplnkId=4c5db026-8a74-488d-a343-b1a3e2f03166

I do believe & have a strong faith. But people please themselves. I'm not gonna fall out with anyone over it.

Of course it's a manmade concept. It's a concept that was created when Man didn't have any other way to explain things that happen in the world. Thunderstorm? God's angry. Illness? You've done something bad and you're being punished for it. Now, we can explain the vast majority of things that happen, yet for some reason people still cling to the idea of 'God'.

We can't yet explain everything, but it will come in time.

Evidence that events in the bible happened is not evidence of God.
Something happened and people attributed it to god, and stories evolved.

Was Jesus real? Yes
Was Mary a virgin, no. Did Jesus want people think she was, yes
Jesus was the same as anyone since claiming to be the son of God, Making up ways to explain things that happened. Accounts written contemporaneous will include real events but the explanation for those events, and the things that had fewer witnesses will be made up or exaggerated.

@Echobelly I was surprised by your post, as practising orthodox Judaism is very demanding with all sorts of inconveniencing, very strict rules. Hard to imagine one going along with it when in fact not practising the main part I.e. faith, while subjecting themselves to all the god worshipping in a shul every week.

Reading the more nuanced posts rather than "course there's no god cos I say so" is very interesting.
The concept of a supreme deity or deities has been common throughout time. Adherence globally to a main religion is growing - only in the west is it declining.
If there was no Great Architect of the universe - was the solar solar system just an accident, planets just coincidence, the fact that earth was just in the right orbit around the sun, the atmosphere developed into breathable gas luckily, and animals just happened to evolve and we just happened to happen, along with large numbers of the animals we evolved from still happily running around?
Also, if we came from chimpanzees how any why did we develop to have so many more qualities that they do not have, or appear to display?

I went to a Catholic school and am agnostic (don’t know what the fuck is going on). I must admit that I found Catholicism and the madness of Nuns in general to be utterly craycray, but each to their own.

I think all religion is a man made concept, much like land borders and many other nonsensical things we made up for nonsensical reasons, but people can believe what they want.

I suppose we’ll find out when we die, or maybe not, either way I’m happy to wait!

We haven't all dismissed all the other gods. I'm pagan and polytheist, quite a few of us about.

What the gods actually are though - that's another question. Made up, literally exist, collective unconscious... lots of people have lots of different thoughts on that.

@jersydress - I'm practicing, but not Orthodox.

But I think an important thing to understand about Judaism is that unlike Christianity, it is not necessarily a 'faith'. My family and other Jews like us practice Judaism as a spiritual and cultural tradition, and yes that may include keeping kosher, attending synagogue regularly, even not driving on the Sabbath, but it doesn't really necessitate God for the meaning it can have in people's lives.

An orthodox person would probably disagree, but it takes all sorts!

Yahweh was originally a warrior deity, which should come as no surprise to anybody. There’s a brilliant man on YT, a Dr Justin Sledge, a practicing Jew, who looks at what we know of the cult of this deity through archeology as well as other topics, such as the origins of Lilith. It’s all fascinating.

I've been thinking about this stuff a lot recently.

So I made a list of reasons "why we have religion". I've copied and pasted a few that haven't already been mentioned.

Interested in anyone's thoughts.

........................................

It’s human/evolutionary to fear the finality of death so we make something up to comfort ourselves that we actually won’t die. This is why people get religious as they get older

We also want to believe that we will be reunited with our loved ones in heaven and that bad folk will be punished in hell.

We WISH someone else was in control – we are scared by war, disease, natural disasters, where humanity is going, it’s a child-like impulse to look for an adult. But just because we wish it were so, doesn’t mean it is.

It is evolutionary for people to follow their parents’ beliefs eg about religion as generally YES they do have more knowledge/experience than you.

It is evolutionary to assume there’s a person behind something rather than it’s random chance, like you see a face in a pattern.

Evolution may explain why all tribes/people have tended to have a religion – it may be that it’s beneficial for people to have this sort of shared belief as it encourages the tribe to stick together and be able to identify outsiders. Some feel the same these days at a football match or a pop concert.

In the olden days, it was essentially social security – the church would look after widows

Homophobic people can use it to justify their position.

We want people to think we are moral.

We feel superior because we know “the truth”.

We feel superior because we are “God’s chosen people” and “special”. No-one wants to think they are just the same as everyone else, 1 of 6 billion people.

We enjoy the music, rituals and “quiet time”. Connects us to our childhood/deceased relatives like our Christmas traditions.

We are overly impressed by the architecture, stained glass, art, music, Biblical scholars etc. Seems strange that it would all be based on nonsense.

Religion is essentially a hobby like any other. Something to be part of, learn about, ascend the hierarchy of in one’s local church. In the old days, it was possibly the only book you had and was your main source of social interaction (apart from the pub?) You would have really stood out if you hadn’t participated.

For those (and there are some) who think we have no proof either way, here is a sketch of a proof that God does not exist:

God, if existent, is omnipotent, omniscient, and morally perfect.

Omnipotent: God has the power to eliminate all evil.
Omniscient: God knows when evil exists.
Morally perfect: God has the desire to eliminate all evil.

Evil exists. (Earthquakes, war, famine, ... lots of bad things in the world)

So either God doesn’t have the power to eliminate all evil, or doesn’t know when evil exists, or doesn’t have the desire to eliminate all evil.

That is, God doesn’t exist.

This argument is certainly valid (the conclusion follows from the premises).

Is it sound? (Given its validity, are the premises all true)? ... Well, perhaps God is not all three of (all powerful), (all knowing) and (morally perfect). Perhaps there's an ignorant creator, an impotent Demiurge, or a big baddie. But otherwise, yes this is a sound argument (pace Leibniz and that best-of-all-possible schtick). So its conclusion is true.

There is no god.

Very monotheist view though.

As far as I'm aware, most pagans don't think the gods are those three things. I certainly don't.

Yep deffo. I'm a witch and work with the "goddess" so to speak. She is the creator that exists in every woman. She manifests herself in all new life, inspiration and new beginnings. It makes sense to me to work with powerful female energies. Energy that can be seen and felt. The Great Maiden- Mother- Matriarch. Wonderful, empowering stuff.

I never understood why anyone, especially women would want to grovel at the feet of a jealous, cruel and vindictive, manchild desert god.

Absolutely baffling.

Absolutely. I’ve always thought this.

Some of the bible is true and some of the people did exist…. but picture it now…. Moses is trying to coordinate all these people, who likely had no laws or regulations. He disappears for 40 days while he chips out some basic rules and tells them they came from “god” to help instil fear in people. Make them behave themselves….

It was a way for people who knew no better, with no scientific advancement, to explain the unexplained - how did the world come to be?

I also think, in modern times, it’s a way for people to either seek community and inclusion (a group of people all signing the same things, the group responses to the priest, the community that creates) and also a way for people who can’t deal with reality to be able to cope - pray to god, believe “god has a plan” etc.

@CampsieGlamper

Humans did not evolve from Chimpanzees.

We have a common ancestor, but Chimps evolved separately from humans.

There are obvious discrepancies between the species, but at the same time we are so similar as to be almost indistinguishable. Chimps use tools, can solve complex problems, form strong family and interpersonal bonds, have their own languages, can be taught to communicate with us, they even have a rudimentary sense of humour which you can see by the fact they mock and tease each other about personal characteristics.

We're more successful in terms of proliferation and clearly more able to adapt to different circumstances, but in terms of functionality Chimps are so close to us that it makes a mockery of this idea that humans are somehow a "chosen" or "special" species.