To cancel DD's sleepover because she has been yelling at me for 3 hours !

[scatterbrain]

To cut a long story short - my dd is 7 and appears to have anger management issues - but only at home ! She is an angel at school and the teachers clearly don't believe me that she is a nightmare at home !

Well - she had a friend coming for a sleepover tonight - been booked for weeks - then this morning she started ranting at me at 5.30am - being really rude and shouting and screaming at me. I sent her to her bedroom and she just kept coming back and yelling abuse at me - the usual crap - hates me. I'm the worst mummy in world etc etc - so I started the I'll give you three chances routine - and if you don't start behaving I will cancel sleepover ! So she caries on - I get to the last warning - remind her and she screams a torrent of sbuse at me - so I picked up my mobile ant started texting the mum - dd grabs my phone off me and runs away with it ! Eventually she brings it back - all the while shouting at me and saying that I won't cancel it because I never do cancel stuff when I say I am going to - which isn't true anyway - but now I have cancellled it and I feel so bad for the other little girl who will be really upset I know !

So - am I being unreasonable ?

Hmmm, this is a tough situation, for all of you.

Some ideas ... first, I would acknowledge that she is angry. It is ok that she is angry. It is not ok, how she's expressing that anger. I'd try to find healthier ways for her to express it - running, kicking a ball, punching pillows, drawing angry pictures, something.

I would try, as much as possible, to get away from her when she is this angry, so she learns to self-calm.

I would try to model good behaviour - both by being calm when she is angry, and by dealing with my own anger responsibly (by talking about it, iyswim). I would try not to get angry at her for being angry.

You seem to know what the triggers are - can you talk about what exactly happens when you ask her to get dressed, when she is playing? Are you telling her to get dressed now, or are you giving her lots of warning? If you know what the triggers are, it's a good idea to a) discuss the triggers with her, when she's calm and b) tiptoe a bit around them.

Oh, just properly read the trigger thing this morning - sounds like it might be hunger underneath maybe?

It's perfectly reasonable that you don't feel like getting her orange juice at 5:30. Could she have got it herself?

scatterbrain, just a thought and I've only read your OP. I think its totally fine to cancel, her shouting was unacceptable. Anyway, she will be exhausted come teatime having woken so early.

Maybe you could do something really nice together tonight. Like cuddle up with a DVD and popcorn, paint her nails, read her extra chapters of favourite book etc.... She has to know you still love her and only cancelled for the reasons you talked about this morning.

Its important to highlight the contrast in a subtle way so that she understands your relationship is not based on a battle of wills. And when she is calm and happy you can remind her gently that you feel sad it had to be cancelled and that you've had fun with her and that you'd like to arrange another sleepover very soon.

I'm not explaining this well. And I am not Mary Bloody Poppins. I have shouting children also and I shout back louder

Oh, yes, what frumpygrumpy said. You don't want a battle of wills. Sometimes being a parent is about offering peace ...

Yes she could easily have got herself a juice - but that's not her point - the juice is almost irrelevant - she wanst to be in charge - she expects that if she tells me to get up I will - and when I didn't she kicked off.

She expects to be allowed to do what she wants when she wanst - and when someone interupts that there is hell to pay.

She is 7 - she has been at school for 3 whole years, and nursery before that - she knows she has to get dressed by 8.15 in her uniform - she KNOWS - but she doesn't WANT TO !!

I make it as easy for her as I can - I lay all her clothes out every day and have to cajole her into getting dressed every single day - every day she throws a wobbly about something - today she wanted pink pants - but there were none clean - so I was in the doghouse for that - then she wanted to wear trainers - she knows she isn't allowed to waer trainers - and so it goes on - she will argue black is white when she is that mood !

I just can't do right some days !

Anyway - got to go and do some work now - thanks for all your advise etc...

yanbu

NQC, thats what I meant, thank you! Offer peace first. Wave the white flag. Proffer an olive branch.

I also have a 7rd old dd and its so damn hard. Mine is going through a phase of "its not fair". I have DTs who are 3 and they are small enough to snuggle on my knee (at separate times) and I think she misses that smallness. I still try to cuddle up with her but I think she feels the differece..... I expect too much of my DD I think. Its because she is the eldest. She is only 7 and I need to remind myself of that and maybe spoil her a little. I am working on it. But we are mothers and we are busy and we need things for ourselves too and its a tough job. Keep going x.

7 can be a really tough age, I think it's a trial run for the teenage years.
You definitely did the right thing. Don't feel you have to make it up up to her though, just carry on as usual. I think it will only confuse her if you are extra nice to her.
You have nothing to feel guilty about.

scatterbrain, I ditto the clothes thing and the tantrums and the not doing anything right. You are me! I am trying persuade my DD1 that I will be happy to help with bits if she just talks and asks in a human way. If my dd wanders through crying about the top button of her shirt I just do it and do them all, give her a kiss and ask her to do her tunic.

I think I see light. Some days lately, wait for it.......she has got out of bed, light on, put on everything, brushed hair and wanders through to surprise me. I then have to stop myself from saying "yeah, thats great, right are we ready for breakfast, grab your toothbrush" and remind myself to say "YOU'RE ALL DRESSED!!!, WHAT A SURPRISE!, HOW FANTASTIC!, HOW ABOUT YOU GET TO WATCH TELLY WITH YOUR CORNFLAKES THIS MORNING AS MY WAY OF SAYING THANK YOU!"

It takes a lot of effort if you are like me and generally talk like Eeoyre in the morning.

it is control, they never get to decide anything really do they and tehy want us to jump when they say jump. but if she's normally lovely (as i expect she is) then just try to reward the positives (I have read all the books) and ignore the bad (tho punish when you have to like you did today)

You have done the right thing, Scatterbrain.
And she would have been too exhausted for a sleep-over if she has been up since 5.30am.

It might be an idea to talk with her about what she could do to help her calm herself down in future.

Maybe she could choose to have some time on her own when she feels herself getting cross, or doing the 'blowing out the candles' exercise.

Negotiate things with her - things that you really don't mind about ie: shall we go to the park or watch a DVD? Encourage her to improve her negotiation skills, and talk through your feeling to help her empathise with your point of view.

And she's only 7, of course, so it will take a while for her to learn how to contain her frustrations.

I agree that it's all about control. You can feel the frustration coming out of DS2 in hot waves when he doesn't get his own way or is thwarted in some thing. I do try to pick my battles but, when it's an important one or he's just been too rude to ignore it, I do absolutely stick to my guns. Much as he wants the control, he has to understand that, as the parents, we wield the power because that is what our job is. I do tend to give in over smaller issues.

Some argue that, by giving in over the smaller issues, he will fight harder over the bigger ones because he's convinced we will eventually give in, but I do find that if you give them a certain amount of autonomy in their lives they are more likely to accept the restrictions and boundaries placed on them in other areas. We do still have big flare-ups from him and, at 12 and almost the same height as me, not to mention a good weight, it is more difficult to deal with on a physical level (I used to pick him up and put him in his room occasionally), but mentally he is easier to reason with (not during a flare-up, but afterwards).

No YANBU. I told ds (7) he couldn't go to Beaver Scouts if he was rude to me in a way he's being increasingly lately. I said you can hardly go to Beavers and pretend to be 'kind and helpful' when that's clearly a lie at the moment.
He was stunned that I followed through rather than make empty threats.
It really worked ( along with other constraints) He knows we mean business now I think.

My friend's dd (7) had a horrendous tantrum in the road outside school yesterday. Proper stamping followed by punching mother really hard as well. This girl is very strong, I wouldn't fancy being punched by her! If that had been ds he would have been severely punished. He would have lost out on one of his beloved activities or banned from watching telly for a couple of days. That really works too.

He has to feel it somehow, lose something or he doesn't learn!

I almost (almost... I couldn't quite bring myself to do it ) took DS to school last week in a pair of old underpants, one sock and yesterdays t-shirt. I told him to chuck his coat on over the top as I was having no more of his nonsense*...

He got dressed VERY sharpish...

But I swear, one day soon, he will end up in school like that (well, OK, I might let him take his clothes into the car...) and we'll see how long he keeps it up.

I have also told him (AFTER I might add all the other stuff - persuasion, bribery, shouting, giving him a list and a deadline and banning absolutely everything else until he is dressed etc etc) I'll just let him get ready when he's ready and if he's late for school, or me and dad are not able to take him at the point when he's finally ready, he'll just have to face the consequences. He's terrified (and much more respectful) of the head teacher so I imagine it will never come to this! obv I'd rather relations did not degenerate so far but if this did happen I think it would be a very salutary learning experience about what parents are for and why exactly they tell you to do stuff on time...

oh god yes, a ban on Cubs in our house too, quite frequently used as last resort. Especially when I point out the cub scout law 'to think of others before themselves'... Unfortunately this just acts like petrol on a flame.

God, I sound cruel don't I? I'm not really; I just think that you've got to use whatever tools work with each child.

Well done for sticking to your guns. If you had made the threat and not carried it out you would be on to a serious losing battle with her.

We had similar probs with dd2 (11) at the weekend. She was on the phone organising a cinema trip and her and her friend were trying to dictate what we saw which I thought was unfair on my younger daughter (we were all going) when I told her that we needed to talk to dd2 she shouted at me telling me to shut up. She was still on the phone to her friend and we cancelled the trip there and then.

DD2 came with me on her own and dd1 stayed at home with early bed no sweets and computer privelidges withdrawn.

Didn't feel bad for the other girl either as she had a strop and slammed the phone down. (Must be something in the water round here!)

YNBU

My 7yo daughter sounds pretty much the same. I cancelled her swimming on Monday,riding on Tuesday for exactly this reason, she got the message by Wednesday.

This has been going on for about 9 months now & after trying all the talking & reasoning & unconditional loving I decided I've just had enough & It Has To Stop, Zero Tolerance, immediate removal of privileges without warning.

Yes - what is it with them being scared of the teachers and not us ???? I said this morning that I would be telling Mrs Thomas about her behaviour and she got really upset - PLEEEEASE DON'T TELL MRS THOMAS MUMMY, PLEEEEEAAASE - I WILL BE GOOD I PROMISE !!! All at top screeching volume !!

DH alwasy threatens dd with going to school in PJs or half dressed - haven't done it yet though !

minster - that's where I'm at too - tried everything that everyone suggests - and have come to conclusion that it's HER - she needs to start behaving properly and towing the line !!

We have a fab holiday booked for Easter and I am so dreading it now - it's my first proper holiday (don't count UK ones !!!) since she came along - and I am just dreading it as I know she will play up ! Makes me feel so sad - why can't she just be an easy laid back child and go along with stuff ??

She has already declared that she hates beaches and will not be going in the sea or on any boats , and she is not eating any foreign food either !! Oh yes - it's going to be fab isn't it ??

Why ever did I want a duaghter ??

yanbu cancel it

Why are they scared of teachers? Because the teachers don't love them just because like us parents do. They know we'll always love them and they trust and love us implicitly so they feel safe to test the boundries. Teachers have to be impressed into liking them!!
You did the right thing by the way.

Stay strong!!! Do NOT back down, under ANY circumstances, or you're done for. Even when the S* really hits the fan and she finds out you've called the other mum.
And well done, by the way . I'm sure she'll thank you when she's older!!

You did absolutely the right thing and please please stick to it. I also have a very head strong, volatile 7 year old DD and I have started to withdraw treats etc and it is slowly (very slowly!) working. She's beginning to link the two and her anger bursts are becoming shorter.

When I'm feeling mean about stopping these treats, I just fast forward a few years and envisage a screeching, swearing teen towering over me. What would we do then in terms of managing their behaviour? Much much more difficult, so we need to nip it in the bud now if possible.

Keep strong .

totally reasonable.

btw, I find it more effective to give one warning and then back up the threat.

if there is any questions about why not 3, blah, blah, as they then feel 'entitled' to have 3 warnings, tell her in no uncertain terms that she does not have any special needs (i am assuming) which prevent her from understanding the first time so one warning is all she needs.

that what we do in classrooms (secondary)with lads who tower over me.

goodness, don't feel bad about the other little girl! It is a lesson to explain to your dd when she is in a talking mood that her actions always have consequences and sometimes the consequences will not just affect her! If she cares about her friend's feelings, she will start to feel more considerate towards you too.

always try to get them to empathise when they are in a talking mood, but not before, otherwise they will assume that you are a nage and a whine and will not take anything on board.